As we see the subject of Matt:20 parable being discussed among present truth believers, the Lord in His wonderful way “supped” (Rev. 3:20) once more with us. Things were made much more clearer as to whether we are in the 11th hour or whether we are pre-11th hour.
As we have mentioned many times before in our correspondance with brethren on this subject, this is one of those subjects we must “go deep” and weigh it, as there are conflicting statements. This is similar to the “Those with” subject. You will find several references that seem to say one view and others saying another view, seemingly contradictory.
If the Lord said through SOP and the Rod the following counsels, then it must be we CAN find the weight of the subject. This is important, as some are propping up their ideas without explaining the opposite view and harmonizing it. We found that continually in our correspondance with brethren on the “Those with” subject in the past.
“Those who desire to doubt will have plenty of room. God does not propose to remove all occasion for unbelief. He gives candid evidence, which must be carefully investigated with a humble mind and teachable spirit, and all should decide from the weight of evidence.”(Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p.675)
“The weight of evidence” is the only fair and final criterion worthy of a Christian who must ever make an investigation for himself concerning purported truth.” ( 1 Ans, p.77)
“In considering the several scriptures bearing on this point and on the kindred points in question, we must base our conclusions solely on the weight of evidence, so that we may not only know all the truth, but also teach nothing but the truth” (Tract 9, p.6)
“Some who are anxious to risk Present Truth on the weight of what one inspired statement seems to say or imply, are thereby presumptuously or very ignorantly overlooking the “weight of evidence.” Others are doing this through shortsightedness, while still others are doing it to prop up certain cherished ideas of their own.” (3 Ans, p. 41-42)
Now let us begin by addressing an issue that has come up in the discussion. That is, this subject is a “salvational” issue. Meaning we had better be on the correct side of the question of whether we are in the 11th hour or not. This issue we feel is a “How readest thou?” (Luke 10:26) meaning that due to the confusing and conflicting statements we cannot believe the Lord would hold those accountable for siding with one view (although incorrect) because of the many statements that seem to back up that view. The lesson on Tract 10 “Sign of Jonah” guides us and explains —
"Suffice it to say that our experience in gospel publishing work teaches us that many who have spent almost countless hours of precious time in confusing the subject of the sign of Jonah, have spent but very little time in studying more essential subjects such as the prohibition against private interpretations of the Scriptures (2 Pet. 1:19, 20); the Spirit of Prophecy (Rev. 19:10); the Sabbath (Ex. 20:8-11); baptism (Matt. 3:15; Acts 2:38); the Kingdom (Isa. 2:2), the slaughter of Ezekiel 9, tithe paying (Mal. 3:10); although these vital subjects call for performance, -- a duty to practice the truths which they teach, -- whereas the sign of Jonah demands nothing." (Tract 10, p.20)
What does saying we are in or pre- 11th hour gain us? What does that change our message now to the church? Nothing. God’s workers in the church vineyard now are still to proclaim the message of the “judgment for the living” for the SDA church is soon to begin (1 Peter 4:17) along with reformation and the understanding of the 144,000 (SR, vol.1, introduction).
Now contrast that to the subject of the 144,000 sealing in the SDA church. The Rod clearly points the understanding of this subject as salvational.
“If we do not understand the subject of the 144,000, we may not be sealed, for it would be worthless to understand it after the sealing, just as it would be of no value to understand the beast and his image after his work on earth is finished.” (SRod, Vol. 1 p.14)
“Some day this subject must be understood, for Inspiration makes no useless statements, and it cannot be in the Bible for a trinket. It must be understood before the number (144,000) is made or it would be of no value. When understood, it will guide the feet of the 144,000 in the straight path just as the first, second, and third angel’s messages have led thousands of souls to Christ.”(SRod, vol. 1, p.14)
“The primary purpose of The Shepherd’s Rod is to unlock the long-concealed mystery concerning the ever-challenging and much discussed subject of the 144,000 (Rev. 14:1), with the central object in view of bringing about among God’s people that “thorough reformation” foretold by the Spirit of Prophecy (Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 251)….
…Its dominant doctrinal concern being the truth of the 144,000, and a correct understanding of it being a life-and-death matter to all, the Rod unfolds it from several different angles, each urging the Denomination to prepare for the glorious deliverance of the saints and against the inglorious destruction of the sinners as foretokened by the marking and slaying recorded in Ezekiel 9.” (SRod Tract, p.5-6)
There are quite a few brethren , we find, who error in the 144,000 subject, particularily on the total amount of those sealed in Ezek.9 from the church. In other words the amount said to be sealed from “all the tribes of children of Israel”(Rev. 7:4) is incorrect in their view. Serious indeed!
But after a deep study of this Matt.20 lesson, as to what hour we are in, this can be subjective and our brothers who mount the judgment seat and say “You must get this right or you will be lost” we caution this proclamation. Nevertheless, as we study this issue, we feel it has one view as being correct.
In our next report , part 2, we’ll begin our detailed study of Matt.20, as the Rod has told us —
“(If you wish to study the parable in all its details, you may do so by reading The Shepherd’s Rod, Vol. 2, pp. 222-239.)” (2 TG, no.43,p.11 – published in 1949 and reprinted in 1953)
In that section, we discover strong evidence of how we can determine whether we are now in the 11th hour, or whether we are pre-11th hour. By God’s grace, we will see that the weight of the correct postition can be found.
To conclude, it is very unfortunate some have discussed this issue as a way of degrading our Pre-11th Hour Ministry work, but the Lord is good and those willing and able to “rightly divide the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15) will not be shaken by such short-sightedness.
Well some of our brethren may be asking “What happened now with Pre-11th hour Ministry and UPA7?” That’s a great question brethren. For those who have followed both our groups, you’re aware that over the last few months UPA7 and us have made joint YouTube presentations, collaborating together for the message of the hour.
However things have taken a strange turn the last couple weeks, so what happened? In this report we’ll break down what has transpired.
We have to go back to September of 2024, yours truly received a FB chat message from our brother Edstrom. As many know, over the years we have had quite a public back and forth on many subjects. Some of it was quite critical towards each other. The subjects of the Kingdom travel, God’s organization structure today, who is entitled to collects tithes, and so forth were our topics.
So in the message we received, Edstrom said he wanted to make a “peace treaty”. This we viewed, was a good first start to having honest discussions and possibly reconciling our differences, at least study them out together. After all there is only one Truth on prophecies and Bible subjects.
So we accepted his offer and we talked a few days later. A Long conversation as one would expect, as we had to catch up and express his peace treaty. We always should remember what the Word says —
“If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.” (Romans 12:18)
So very soon after this, our communication became more frequent. Phone calls and FB chat messages mostly. Soon plans were made to do a joint Bible study on the Fundamental Beliefs. Pre-11th hour had already begun to put the word out that probably the best starting point in unifying Davidia, was to have meetings with other DSDA groups, with the goal of understanding and agreeing to our FB’s. Surprisingly, many DSDA “say” they believe in them yet teach otherwise. For example, JTT comes before Ezekiel 9. The FB’s show otherwise.
We did our presentation of the FB’s with UPA7 this Sept. The meeting was a success and the synergy was excellent. One of the points highlighted is that in order to believe the FB’s, one must throw out the idea of a Flying Chariot picking up the saints and zooming them over to the kingdom. This idea and FB no.7 “..the time of Jacob’s trouble (Jer. 30:7) for the 144,000, the sons of Jacob, logically develops on their way home (Gen. 32:1, 24)” cannot be harmonized. This was one of the subjects Edstrom and myself discussed in our prior YouTube presentations. He supported the Chariot travel idea, we did not.
Then after this we decided to do a part 2, but this time focusing on Florence Houteff and the new code debacle over our history. This as well was rewarding and many were blessed and enlightened.
In the last presentation we did together , one of the UPA7 brethren brought up the question about our name “Pre-11th Hour Ministry” and implied we should reconsider it. We mentioned we’d be happy to discuss this topic at a later date. Later brother Edstrom reached out to us indicating he had something to show us. It was the decades old (I mean back in the 90’s) Nosworthy situation, whereby he sent off warning letters to the government bascially starting the whole Waco fiasco with Koresh and his cult.
But his main point was to have us reconsider our name and how it was not good for spreading the message of the hour as a group name. We kindly responded that we were not concerned, as Nosworthy’s name was “Pre-11th hour Bible study” and though similar in name ,God would protect His work and that Nosworthy’s work was not God’s work at all.
The same logic can be applied to our name Davidian Seventh-day Adventists. Just because Koresh tainted the word “Davidian”, do we now change it? Let’s be firm , God is able to protect His work no matter how the enemy tries to tear it down. We do not capitulate.
Our main goal is to reach Mother (SDA church) and 99.9% of Adventists have no clue concerning this issue. It’s a non-issue, and why bring this controversy up as the relevance is not there. Brother Edstrom was stirring up a hornet’s nest when it did not need to be stirred up. He soon made a video bringing it up in the public forum. And most unsettling is his portrayal as our Ministry being spiritually tainted both by the name and the idea we are not in the 11th hour yet.
So now we are where we are. We ofcourse, on our end, wish only the best for our brother, but we won’t stand down from proclaiming the truth.
There are serious doctrinal issues that exisit between our groups, with the main one being how God is organizing His work today. Our groups had talked on possibly setting up private studies on this issue, we will have to wait and see if that can still be accomplished.
But we are clear, we cannot support UPA7’s ideas that we are in the scattering period and that each must fend for himself. That small groups of brethren, even individuals, who produce the original Rod message can be entitled to collect tithes. This is ignorance and disobedience of the Lord’s Rod counsel —
CANNOT MY HOME BE HIS “STOREHOUSE”?
Question No. 97:
Is it Scriptural for one to retain and personally use his tithe and offerings in order to carry on the gospel work in his own community, according to his own plans? { ABN4: 44.3 }
Answer:
Nowhere in the Scriptures do we find permission to use the Lord’s money at our own discretion. The only justification for so doing would be sheer inability, for some reason to send it to the Lord’s “storehouse.” Should one voluntarily, though, engage in such a practice then he would set the wrong example before others. And if following in his lead, others assume the same right, their course must inevitably result in seriously handicapping the Lord’s work, bleeding and subverting His treasury, and thus disorganizing His work and reducing the church to a mere shell, while her members are hiring themselves as laborers in the Lord’s vineyard, helping themselves to the Lord’s money, and running without having been sent! What a Babylon that would be! { ABN4: 44.4 }
Though the Lord commands, “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse” (Mal. 3: 10), He does not say to bring all the offerings. Thus, He shows that if we would engage in some personal charity or missionary activity, we should sustain it from offerings, not from the tithe. { ABN4: 45.1 }
“Angels keep a faithful record of every man’s work, and as judgment passes upon the house of God, the sentence of each is recorded by his name, and the angel is commissioned to spare not the unfaithful servants, but to cut them down at the time of slaughter….And the crowns they might have worn, had they been faithful, are put upon the heads of those saved by the faithful servants….”Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 198. { ABN4: 45.2 }
In closing, we’ll be publishing an indepth report on the 11th hour question. As stated, brother Edstrom has brought this out for discussion and we must dig deep upon the many references, charts and symbols to weigh this matter out.
As many are aware our Minstry (Pre-11th Hour) and UPA7 have presented two recent studies. We discussed our Fundamental Beliefs in part 1 and Florence Houteff’s role in disrupting the message in part 2. The links will be provided below.
We have heard from some of the brethren of late, and they inquire whether there is a uniting of the two organizations in the near future. The simple answer is nothing is planned as of now.
The Chinese have an old true saying ” A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.” Yours truly and brother Edstrom have experienced a difficult history, much of it public via YouTube and Blogs. However a fateful call came from our brother back in 2024 which, praise the Lord, changed our course. Instead of finding ways to go against each other, we now look at ways of working together. The Word says —
“If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.” (Romans 12:18)
This being said, we still have work to do. There is the main issue of — how is God leading His work today? Specifically, has God generally abandoned central organized leadership and preferred scattering brethren all over the world to carry on His work without any one centralized leadership structure?
UPA7 and Pre-11th hour have differing beliefs on this issue. Again the Word of God helps us —
“For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”(1 Cor. 14:33)
There is a clear path forward on this issue and Lord willing we’ll be able to study it out and discern God’s Word and just as importantly –His history in leading His people.
“In reviewing our past history, having traveled over every step of our advance to our present standing, I can say Praise God! As I can see what God has wrought, I am filled with astonishment, and with Christ as our leader. We have nothing to fear for the future except as we shall forget the way the Lord has led us.” (TM, p.31)
When we step back and see His leading, specifically after the Knock-out blow, we can gather great insight as to how He is leading us since then. Do not for once think God was not leading each specific move since the passing of the prophet. Those who do, have much to fear as Inspiration tells us, and thus be in the dark on this issue.
Once we see His historical course, we know how He is leading us right now –today. Is it one centralized leadership organizational structure or a scattering of brethren without no such structure?
Back in November of 2020 the above pictured man , Lennox Sam, made a video naming the “four Jesuits” among Davidian SDA today. Yours truly was of the honored ones. We say this in jest ofcourse. His false witnessing knows no bounds and we can be sure the great God in heaven has marked such slander and false witnessing down. We want to make it to heaven we first and foremost obey the foundations of our King–the 10 Commandments. Yet one man who claims he is “God’s messenger” today has no qualms bearing false witness –go figure!
We bring this issue up because once again Sam has “doubled down” on his false witnessing by making another presentation last Sabbath using the same deceitful tactics as he did back in 2020. The message is so clear about the one of the main attack modes of the enemy.
“..since the Enemy cannot get around the Truth, he does all he can to blacken character and to pick flaws in personalities.” (GCS, p.8)
Indeed blacken character! Sam is trying to smear others in hopes of raising himself up and protecting “his” status as “the” messenger of God today. He attacks those who apparently are a threat to his house of cards (numerous false doctrines). Again SOP makes mention of these tastics —
“I saw that the very spirit of perjury, that would turn truth into falsehood, good into evil, and innocence into crime, is now active. Satan exults over the condition of God’s professed people. While many are neglecting their own souls, they eagerly watch for an opportunity to criticize and condemn others. All have defects of character, and it is not hard to find something that jealousy can interpret to their injury. “Now,” say these self-constituted judges, “we have facts. We will fasten upon them an accusation from whichthey can not clear themselves.” They wait for a fitting opportunityand then produce their bundle of gossip and bring forth their tidbits.” (5 Testimones, p.94)
We heard from brother Trevor Bingham via a post on our Truth Tellers facebook group, saying how amazed he was to hear Lennox Sam stoop so low with such false accusations. Yes, some of us are in need of “unlearning” many things we have taught and Bashan is no exception, BUT to purposely blacken another brother’s character WITHOUT true facts is quite alarming!
Jesuits, we should remember are those special agents connected with the Catholic Church, who main mission is to expose heretics (those who fight against the Mother Church), and to either do them harm or reconvert them back to the “true faith” as they believe. They are 100% committed to th Catholic Church no matter what may come. This is their sworn oath —
Poverty: Renouncing personal possessions.
Chastity: Forgoing marriage.
Obedience: Promising to obey the Constitutions of the Society of Jesus.
Special obedience to the Pope: Specifically regarding mission assignments.
Now Sam is claiming yours truly, along with brother Bingham, brother Edstrom and brother Gonzalez are all Jesuits! Have any of us ever produced ANY evidence of working for the Catholic Church? If we are Jesuits we are lousy ones! For we all are married. Sam makes a case against Bashan (however twisting and weak) but regarding us others , all of our work has been in an attempt to spread the message of DSDA not one of spreading of the Pope’s and Catholic Church faith.
We did do a video a while back showing some good aspects of the comportment of their members in church (silence in the sancturary, women wearing the head coverings, etc) but was in an effort to make us SDA ponder our own short comings in this regard.
To summarize Lennox Sam is on very shakey ground and the Great God of heaven , we are sure has noticed such false witnessing and slander. Brother Ariel, from the philippines, was taken out by God, along with another self proclaimed “Elijah prophet”– Ben Roden, their ideas vanished as foolishness. The same fate will come on Sam lest he repents, not only of this public slander and false witnessing, but of his MANY false doctrines he is trying to snag the brethen with!
“A false withness wil not go unpunished. And he who speaks lies shall perish.” (Proverbs 19:9)
This past Sunday UPA7 (presented by brother Eric Edstrom) and Pre-11th Hour Ministry (presented by brother Rob Peralta) came together to make an historic plea to our brethren of faith — Let’s get back to our Fundamental Beliefs. Since the death of the prophet we have seen subtle changes, subtractions and additions to them. This is ofcourse to be expected as the message says —
“Moreover, the old Devil has already put all his forces to work, piping pleasing tunes to lure Truth seekers to climb aboard his golden bandwagon. Its glittering tinsel of truth is already beguiling many with his wares while his captains and generals are to the top of their voices shouting their “Hallelujahs,” “Holy Ghost,” “gift of healing,” “gift of tongues,” “gift of miracles,” and all the rest, although the entire fanfare is devoid even of a spark of life. Every wind of doctrine will be blowing, false revivals and reformations will be at their peak. Everything that can be done will be done to distort the Truth and thus distract and dishearten believers and draw their attention to something other than the message of Elijah.” (GCS, p.7)
“draw their attention to something other than the message of Elijah”-exactly!! Our arch enemy has tried over the last several decades (since the death of the prophet) to do this by attacking the tenets of our faith –our Fundamental Beliefs.
What are some of the areas of concern?
— FB # 2 — Godhead (Trinity)
Additional FB# 4 (Sunday Law placement in order of events)
” ” FB # 5 (meaning of the loosing of the four winds)
” ” FB # 6 (correct understanding of what this says)
” ” FB # 7 ( timing of Jacob’s time of trouble)
In this presentation, we point out the above snags of the enemy upon our FB’s. Take the time to prayferfully listen and you WILL BE BLESSED AND ENLIGHTENED. Truth and nothing but the Truth!
“And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.” Rev. 12:16.
The “earth,” God’s mighty weapon, is finally to help the woman. It is to swallow up the “flood”; that is, the same Divine means which, according to the parable, takes away the tares and burns them, likewise takes away all who have joined the church but who are still pagan at heart. And what happens then? — The Scriptures supply the answer:
“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Rev. 12:17.
The term “remnant” discloses that her seed is divided into two parts: The one is taken, the other is left. Nehemiah, for example, explains: “The remnant that are left of the captivity there in the province are in great affliction and reproach.” Neh. 1:3. A “remnant” always represents one part of the whole, either large or small.
And notice that the dragon wars, not against a remnant of the “flood,” but against the remnant of her seed. Christ being the woman’s only child, her seed are therefore the Christians, those who are born into the church through the Spirit of Christ. Accordingly, the act of taking the first fruits to Mount Sion (Rev. 14:1) brings about a condition which makes a remnant of those who are still left among the Gentiles. In this instance, therefore, they, the second fruits, are the remnant.
Let it be remembered that it is after the earth swallows the flood that the dragon is to be wroth with the woman, and “to make war with the remnant of her seed [not with her personally], which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Rev. 12:16 17. Clearly, then, there is no escaping the conclusion that the doing away with Satan’s flood is doubtless the purifying of the church, the destroying of those who have joined the church through the aid of the serpent. (Tract 15, p. 87-89).
Once again we notice the statement“after the earth swallows the flood”that inspiration then declares “the dragon is to be wroth with the woman, and “to make war with the remnant of her seed [not with her personally],”.
We cannot nor should not misunderstand what happens “after” Ezek. 9. The dragon does not attempt any waring against the 144,000 but he does make war (Sunday Law persecution) against the “remnant of her seed” the great multitude.
“Finally, though, as prophecy discloses, the tables are turned, and the long controversy ends with the Lord’s casting out and destroying (Rev. 12:16) Satan’s agents, the “flood” (the tares, the bad fish), and then lighting the earth with the glory of His angel (Rev. 18:1)!
Here we see that the approaching work of making rid of the flood, thereby freeing the church from the unconverted, is the work of “the harvest” in “the end of the world.” Matt. 13:39. Next we must ascertain whether the “end of the world” brings the millennial age of peace or the great time of trouble such as never was. To determine which, we must consult subsequent events.
Since it is after the earth swallows the flood, that the dragon is to be wroth with the woman and to go “to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” (Rev. 12:16, 17), there is no escaping the conclusion that the harvest, in taking away from the church Satan’s flood, his multiplied tares, does not bring the millennium of peace. Indeed not, but rather it brings God’s wrath—the time of trouble such as never was: the time in which His people in Babylon are called to “come out of her” and into His purified church—the Kingdom.
The harvest, therefore, is a short period of time just before, rather than the moment at, the appearing of Christ in the clouds. It is the very last days of probation for earth’s kingdoms,— the days and work which bring the end of the world.
The fact that there is a remnant (that which is left) of the seed of the woman, shows that her seed is divided into two parts, and that consequently the symbolism represents three groups of people: (1) the woman; (2) the first part of her seed—those who in this instance are not the remnant; (3) the second part of her seed—those who are the remnant.
In the light of this symbolical representation, the woman, herself, is seen to symbolize the mother part of the church—God’s appointed and Spirit-filled ministers who bring in the born-again (John 3:3) converts. The first part of her seed must, accordingly, be the first fruits, the 144,000, who, separated from the sinners that were among them, are taken to Mount Sion, there to stand with the Lamb (Rev. 14:1). Hence, “the remnant of her seed” are in this instance those who are yet in the world when Babylon rides the beast (Rev. 17). Thus they are the second and last fruits which are to be taken to the purified church, the Kingdom, where there is neither sin nor fear of Babylon’s plagues falling upon them (Rev. 18:4).” ( 2 Ans, p.13-15)
Preponderance again showing that “after” Ezek. 9 the saints are not persecuted by the dragon by Sunday Law but rather “taken to Mount Sion, there to stand with the Lamb (Rev. 14:1).”
In part 1 we showed the early statements made in our subject, now we’ll look at statements after the prophet had light on the pre-millennial kingdom.
“Since it is after the earth swallows the flood, that the dragon is to be wroth with the woman and to go “to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” (Rev. 12:16, 17), there is no escaping the conclusion that the harvest, in taking away Satan’s flood, his multiplied tares, does not bring the millennium of peace. Indeed not, but rather it brings his wrath—the time of trouble such as never was: the time in which God’s people in Babylon are called to “come out of her” and into His purified church—the Kingdom.
The harvest, therefore, is a short period of time just before, rather than the moment at, the appearing of Christ in the clouds. It is the very last days of probation for earth’s kingdoms,—the days and work which bring the end of the world.
The fact that there is a remnant (that which is left) of the seed of the woman, shows that her seed is divided into two parts, and that consequently the symbolism represents three groups of people: (1) the woman; (2) the first part of her seed—those who in this instance are not the remnant; (3) the second part of her seed—those who are the remnant.
In the light of this symbolical representation, the woman, herself, is seen to symbolize the mother-part of the church—God’s appointed and Spirit-filled ministers who bring in the born-again (John 3:3) converts. The first part of her seed must, accordingly, be the first fruits, the 144,000, who, separated from the sinners that were among them, are taken to Mount Sion, there to stand with the Lamb (Rev. 14:1).Hence, “the remnant of her seed” are in this instance those who are yet in the world when Babylon rides the beast (Rev. 17). Thus they are the second and last fruits which are to be taken to the purified church, the kingdom, where there is neither sin nor fear of the plagues falling (Rev. 18:4).
And now, since in her progression of time, the woman represents each successive ministry, therefore at the time that the dragon is wroth with her, she necessarily must represent the last ordained ministry, the 144,000, those who bring all their brethren from all nations to God’s “holy mountain Jerusalem.” Isa. 66:20.
With this light shining on the subject, the truth is clearly seen that after the earth swallows the flood, after the angels separate the wicked (“the tares,” the “bad”—”fish”) from the righteous (the “wheat,” the “good”—”fish”) in the church, and take the righteous to Mount Sion (“the barn,” “the vessels”—Matt. 13:30, 48),the dragon will then be angry with the woman (the servants of God), and as a result will war against the remnant (the second fruits, those who are then to be called out of Babylon—Rev. 18:4).(7 SC, no. 7-12, p.9, July 1941)
Here is the very first advanced light statement on the subject. We find this one very informative, let us break it down. Before we do we will read and observe these important counsels, — the context and note every word.
“Never is it right to interpret any scripture isolated from its context, for to do so is automatically to do violence to its meaning.” (Tract 3, p.99)
“…as there are no useless words in either of the writings, those who desire to know the truth must carefully mark every word, otherwise they will never comprehend the truth and, as a consequence, they will be driven by the winds as the waves of the sea until the winds cease blowing (probation closes), and they be left to sink down in their sins as do the waves in the sea.”(SC, vol. 2, no.7-8, p.10)
“…when we take into consideration the meaning of each wordinstead of making thoughtless and hasty conclusions, the Scriptures prove to be not only most perfect and wonderful and yet simple, but also inspiring, making wise the humble — and lightening the path of him who as did Christ, delights to do the will of God.” (SC, vol. 2, no. 2, p.3)
“..to him who digs deep into the well of salvation, and that can think and reason for himself. Such a one reads between the lines and notes the full value of each word.” (1 TG, no.45, p.22)
Ok back to the reference. Notice first, the time this reference applies –after the earth swallows the flood (Ezekiel 9). Secondly, after this swallowing there is three groups of people “(1) the woman; (2) the first part of her seed—those who in this instance are not the remnant; (3) the second part of her seed—those who are the remnant. “
So adding it up after Ezekiel 9, the 144,000 are not the remnant but the great multitude are. Therefore the Sunday law persecution does not come to the first fruits but the second fruits after Ezekiel 9 as we read —
“Hence, “the remnant of her seed” are in this instance those who are yet in the world when Babylon rides the beast (Rev. 17).”
and — “the dragon will then be angry with the woman (the servants of God), and as a result will war against the remnant (the second fruits, those who are then to be called out of Babylon—Rev. 18:4).”
In what instance? After the earth swallows the flood and the dragon is wroth! He is mad because he just lost his servants, the flood of hypocrites and sooth-sayers, and goes to make war with the second fruits — the great mulititude.
When we understand the travel issue of the message (they leave quickly to the kingdom) we know that it’s not possible for the dragon to touch the 144,000.
Due to the many references and depth of this study, we will have many parts.
to be continued ……
Ps. we pray that this study is carefully read as Davidian confusion should be cleared up if we’ll take in the whole picture of the subject.
“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” (Rev. 12:17)
We notice that Satan is “wroth” with the woman, yet then goes to make war not with the woman but with the “remnant of her seed”. In this scripture we’ll examine who is the woman and who is the remnant of her seed.This is important to know because it will clear up some misconceptions that some of our present truth believers hold to, When we examine the Lord’s final message of Elijah , the Rod, we’ll gain good insight into clarity and therefore correct timelines of events to come.
There are 39 mentions of Rev. 12:17 in the message (according to the SROD Index). That is quite a lot! Obviously this scripture is important for us and the Rod delves into it deeply. So should we!
As we have mentioned time and again when we enter a study of a topic we must FIRST gather all the relevent references, then we carefully examine them, putting together the puzzle with the pieces nicely harmonizing. We are told to harmonize and indeed is one of the “study keys” that unlocks the subject so that we can see the picture clearly.
The problem is that some of us do not “rightly divide the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15), meaning we choose selected references resulting in our failing to harmonize them. Thus we get a non-harmonious view on the subject. This cannot be the truth of the subject, as we are told —
“Let us remember always to observe the inviolable rule that an interpretation of one inspired statement must harmonize with all other related statements. ( 3 Ans, p.41)
“Those who are willing to risk all on the ground of one inspired statement and disregard another in order to carry out certain cherished ideas of their own… We would never try to establish an idea on the basis of agreeing with one passage of Scripture while disagreeing with another, for such a conclusion is as sure to be erroneous as if one should conclude that when the sun sets in the evening, it will never arise in the morning. The student of truth should harmonize”(2 SC, no. 1, p.5)
“Those who entertain the idea that there is only one sifting, and only first fruits, will never be able to harmonize every statement of the Bible and of the Spirit of Prophecy, for while their idea may perfectly harmonize in one instance, it will not in another. But the position of those who know the truth, and who all speak the same thing, will be in harmony with every inspired statement on the subject.” (2 SC, no. 12, p.7)
“No candid Bible student would build a theory upon an interpretation that would lead him to set aside all other scriptures on the subject. He will seek to make his final analysis in such a way as to be in perfect harmony with all of them, or else confess that he does not have the light on the subject.” (3 Ans, p.53)
“Though there is but one right interpretation of each Bible doctrine, yet a multitude of conflicting interpreatation are in the Christian world today, with the result that it is split into many sects and schisms (heads), woth no two believing alike.” (Tract 12, p.24)
As we go into this study it is also helpful to remember another study key — Understanding limited light statements. This particularly applies for this subject as the Rod did not have the full blazing light of the pre-millennial kingdom until 1937. Therefore some early references were a “limited understanding common to the time ‘then present’ — an understanding which the messenger himself shares” (1 Ans, p.49). Simply stated the prophet did not know that the saints would pack up and leave quickly for the kingdom after Ezekiel 9, but rather stay in their home countries and deal with the Sunday Law persecution.
Let’s begin with those early statments.
John’s vision in the twelfth chapter of Revelation, deals with two main subjects; namely, the “woman clothed with the sun,” and the “red dragon.” The latter has been explained. (See pages 65-69.) The symbol of the “woman” in the New Testament time covers three divisions: 1st, the apostolic period; 2nd, her absence from civilization (in the wilderness) for 1260 days (years of papal persecution, Rev. 12:6, 14); 3rd, the last period of the church while in conflict with the dragon. (Rev. 12:15-17.) (2 SR, p.76)
The Rod was of the understanding that the church, the 3rd and last period, was to have direct conflict with Satan through the Sunday Law. Persecution was to come not only to the great multitude but also to the 144,000 with the emeny warring with this final church through SL persecution.
As soon as the separation is finished, and Satan has lost out with his deceptive scheme, the church finds herself in a great conflict with the enemy. Rev. 12:17, “And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed [those who are left], which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” (The war against the woman is the blue law.) (1 SR, p.152)
Again we see that the Satan is to war (persecute) the woman through the SL, which in this case means BOTH the GM and the 144,000. This is an example of a limited light statement.
Micah 4:11, “Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion.” As soon as God’s church as a body (not as individuals) escapes the clutches of the devil (for the unclean shall not enter in), and becomes earnest, filled with the Spirit of God, the wrath of the old enemy will be aroused, and will bring about the fulfillment of Rev. 12:17. “And the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus.”
This time of trouble is also described by the Spirit of Prophecy. Early Writings, pages 33, 34: “And at the commencement of the time of trouble, we were filled with the Holy Ghost as we went forth and proclaimed the Sabbath more fully….The wicked thought that we had brought the judgments upon them, and they rose up and took counsel to rid the earth of us, thinking that then the evil would be stayed. In the time of trouble we all fled from the cities and villages, but were pursued by the wicked, who entered the houses of the saints with a sword.” Also pages 282, 283.
“I saw the saints leaving the cities and villages and associating together in companies, and living in the most solitary places. Angels provided them food and water, while the wicked were suffering from hunger and thirst. Then I saw the leading men of the earth consulting together, and Satan and his angels busy around them. I saw a writing, copies of which were scattered in different parts of the land, giving orders that unless the saints should yield their peculiar faith, give up the Sabbath, and observe the first day of the week, the people were at liberty after a certain time, to put them to death.” Jeremiah also describes this troublous time. “The shepherds with their flocks shall come unto her; they shall pitch their tents against her round about; they shall feed every one in his place.” Jer. 6:3. ( 1 SR, p.180-181)
This once again confirms the SOP statement that not only the GM but also the 144,000 will be — “leaving the cities and villages and associating together in companies, and living in the most solitary places. Angels provided them food and water, while the wicked were suffering from hunger and thirst. Then I saw the leading men of the earth consulting together, and Satan and his angels busy around them. I saw a writing, copies of which were scattered in different parts of the land, giving orders that unless the saints should yield their peculiar faith, give up the Sabbath, and observe the first day of the week, the people were at liberty after a certain time, to put them to death.”
However we know from studying the message that the 144,000, during the Loud Dry, are doing their missionary work in the world and won’t be “living in the most solitary places.” This scenario can only apply to the “some” of the great mulitude, those who haven’t made it to the kingdom yet. Often we will notice that SOP had light on end time events in regards to the GM, not the 144,000. That was the job of the “Elijah” to come ( Mal. 4:5). The scroll could not unroll ahead of it’s time.
Says the Revelator: “I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy.” (Rev. 17:3.) Thus the number of “heads,” and “full of names,” include all the offshoots from Protestantism and Catholicism. Had there been no mention made of being “full of names,” more than seven, and “scarlet,” which denotes that God’s people have been called out of it, therefore, “scarlet” — skimmed — under curse ready to perish, the Biblical number “seven heads,” would have included those who are carrying God’s message as in the period of the leopard-like beast of Revelation 13:1, at the time his deadly wound was healed.
Therefore, it would have made no allowance for the church which “keep the commandments of God, and the Faith of Jesus,” and thus it would have contradicted the following Scripture:“And the dragon was wroth with the woman [God’s church], and went to make war with the remnant of her seed [Israel the true — the 144,000], which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” (Rev. 12:17.)(2 SR,p.124-125)
Here the limited light shining at the time calls the 144,000 “remnant of her seed” of which the dragon wars with (SL persecution). This would later be rectified and explained further as to the real meaning of remnant of her seed.
This next statment perfectly explains how the limited light shining at the time summed up the remnant amd the remnant of her seed and the SL persecution against both the GM and the 144,000.
“The remnant of Israel [the 144,000] shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.” (Zeph. 3:13.) “In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses [those that carry the gospel] holiness unto the Lord; and the pots [in whose possession is the truth] in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar [pure and undefiled]. Yea, every pot in Jerusalem [the church] and in Judah [the leading part of the church] shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts, and all they that sacrifice [offering] shall come and take of them, and seeth therein [they who administer in sacred things], and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite [unconverted] in the house of the Lord of hosts.” (Zech. 14:20, 21.)
This is the church that is represented in Revelation 12:17, “Which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” The “woman” represents the church as a body. “The remnant of her seed” are the 144,000 against whom the dragon makes war. The war is waged against them, because they are the earthly leaders and founders of the movement. “Of her seed” signifies that they are part of “the woman,” or in other words, the 144,000, and the great multitude, is but one movement — one family. (2 SR, p.265)
The night is approaching and the shadows of the dark ages are beginning to fall upon God’s people, when “all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution” (2 Tim. 3:12). The time is nigh upon us of which prophecy says:“The dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant (the 144,000) of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” (Rev. 12:17.) But we “reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” (Rom. 8:18.) ( 1 SC, no.9, p.4)
The next one is VERY INTERESTING. Although the prophet still had his limited light views on the remnant and remnant of her seed (GM and 144,000) being persecuted by the SL, notice he does indicate the correct “timing” of it! Meaning it will not be quickly put in place after the Ezekiel 9 church judgment but down the line of time (last resort). This is backed up by the Harvest Chart timing of events.So, although certain aspects of limited light were incorrect as the scroll needed to be unrolled, not all was in need of correction later. This can also be said of the Harvest Chart, orignally made in 1931, and made into a full colored chart in the early 40’s. Those timeline of events pointed out in the pathway of that Chart was confirmed and backed up in 1953 in the Hunter’s manuel (teacher’s guide). So today we are told to teach from that Chart!
“Is Satan working for God’s and His church’s interest or against? If against, he will never do one thing to purify the church or to fulfill the prophecy.
The only thing that would compel him to pass blue Sunday laws andgo “to make war with the remnant of her seed” (with those that are left, Rev. 12:17) is the purity of the church when God by the slaughter weapons of Ezekiel Nine takes away the tares which received not the mark,and even then Satan will not enact “blue Sunday laws” until after he has exhausted every other weapon against the church.” ( 2 SC, no. 1, p.9-10)
“If the time of trouble or the anger of the nations, which is caused by the union of church and state (the image of the beast), takes place in the time of the judgment of the living, as explained in former publications, the enforcement of the “Blue Sunday law” must take place after the purification of the church. The Bible says, “The dragon… went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus.” (Rev. 12:17.)
The term, “remnant,” in this instance means “those who escape” from the slaughter. (Isa. 66:16, 19);that is, those who are left after the slaughter takes place, and who are to be sent “unto the nations” to “bring all your brethren unto the Lord out of all nations.” (Verse 20). As the church as a body is not now keeping the commandments of God, (“Testimonies to Ministers,” p. 373), and as the dragon makes war with the “remnant” (the church that is left), which keeps the commandments, it is evident that the enforcement of the Sunday law will take place after the sealing, at a time when the church is keeping the commandments of God. Moreover, if it were the Sunday law which is to show who are loyal, and who are not, then the church would be purified by Satan instead of the Lord, Who “shall suddenly come to His temple” and “sit as a refiner and purifier of silver.” (Mal. 3:1-3.) (2 SC, no.9, p.6)
The above are the limited light statements on our subject, it can be clearly seen that inspiration did not disclose beforehand the complete picture of the 144,000 in regards to the Sunday Law. It is unfortunate that some Davidians use the above to support their ideas of the SL affecting the 144,000. They do not rightly divide the word of truth, but those who dig deeply understand that the scroll did indeed unroll further.
In our next post we’ll begin to look at the references that were made once the kingdom light had come.
Recently we did a presentation where we used some New King James Version quotes (NKJV) and a sister inquired as to its legitimacy as compared to the regular KJV. That was a good question, so we looked into this subject.
First, the message says this about the KJV —
“…My speech and my preaching,” says the apostle Paul, “was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.” 1 Cor. 2:4, 5.
Let this counsel warn God’s people away from the precarious practice of hanging their doctrines and their faith on the gilded hooks of perverted interpretations and of renderings from tongues unknown to them (the Hebrew, the Greek, and this, that, or the other) and of interpretative translations that bolster up and serve the interests of theological preconceptions and predilections better than does the authorized version — the version which God, in His providence and in His foreknowledge of finishing His work by the English-speaking world, has given to His people to lead them into His kingdom. Beware, therefore, of the pretentions of pseudo-scholarship, which assume to be more dependable than that which God, Himself, has chosen and wrought in simplicity.
“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.” Matt. 24:35. (Tract 9, p.75-76)
Ellen White’s practice demonstrates that she recognized the value of using the best available translations and that she did not limit herself to the KJV exclusively,as noted by the Ellen G. White Estate. While she often preferred the KJV in her preaching due to its familiarity, she acknowledged the benefits of using other versions in her writing, especially when they offered clearer or more accurate renderings of the text, according to the Ellen G. White Estate. (EGW Estate)
The important issue that is at hand is — does the NKJV make any doctrinal changes in it’s interpretations and hold to strict fidelity to the KJV version?
The consensus is —
No, the New King James Version (NKJV) does not significantly alter core doctrinal points compared to the King James Version (KJV). While the NKJV aims to update the KJV’s language, it generally maintains the same underlying Greek and Hebrew texts, and therefore, the same theological interpretations. The NKJV’s changes are primarily stylistic, aimed at making the text more accessible to modern readers, while retaining the core message and meaning. (Google search)
The NKJV was published in 1982, far from the time of death of brother Houteff (1955), so obviously VTH could not have weighed in on the matter. But from the above reference the Rod counsels no other version to use except the KJV. That being said, from a personal point of view and experience, we have not found at all the NKJV changing ANY part of the doctrinal points, and that includes the Rod interpretations.
What we do find is the “thou” and “thee” “withersoever” etc, and other old english words made modern in terms of today’s english.
Let’s look at a couple examples.
“And whereasthousawest iron mixed withmiryclay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall notcleaveone to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.” (Dan. 2:43) (KJV)
“Asyousawiron mixed withceramicclay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will notadhereto one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.” (Dan 2:43) (NKJV)
Another example —
“The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord,asthe rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.”(Proverbs 21:1) (KJV)
The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord,likethe rivers of water; Heturns it wherever He wishes.”(Proverbs 21:1) (NKJV)
In highlights we see the change of words, but does that change the meaning of the sentence, the point being made? No. Any normal english reader can comprehend the meaning of the statement. Whether it is called “miry clay” or “ceramic clay”, no one should lose the intended thought. This is the type of examples in the NKJV and KJV.
So bottomline brethren, we believe the NKJV is basically the same authorized version of the KJV and is helpful in using in reports and studies to get the message’s points across. After about 15 years in this message I have yet to find anything of substance affecting the main points and lessons. If anyone does find an issue where the two versions change any doctrinal points, let us know.
In many of our reports we do quote KJV as often as we can, it’s just that sometimes we find a more clearer translation from the NKJV. We want the point understood as clear as modern english words can make it.
One last note, no other translations should be entertained as they often stray from key words of the KJV and thus sometimes the doctrinal points are then changed, a very serious matter.
In part 3, we’ll look at questions that may arise about the Four Carpenters (will be shortened –FC).
These questions naturally arise, and must be harmonized with what we have learned from parts 1 and 2. For instance let’s look at the following —
“Inasmuch as both the “field” with the wheat and tares (Matt. 13:30), and the “net” with the good and bad “fish” (Matt. 13:47, 48), represent the gospel church during the period in which the saints and the hypocrites are commingled, then the “vessels” into which the “good fish” are placed after the “bad” are cast away “from among” them, and the “barn” into which the “wheat” is placed after the “tares” are separated from it, must necessarily represent the church passing from its unclean state (field or net) into another, its purified state, which is symbolized, not by the “field” or by the “net,” but rather by a “barn” and by “vessels” — a new place safe and clean —where “henceforth there shall no more come…the uncircumcised and the unclean.”Isa. 52:1.(8 Tract, p.92)
Note this period is after the 144,000 are placed in the “barn” –kingdom land. Remember the FC’s will be in the kingdom to build for Judah (144,00.) So logically the “henceforth” time must be after both the saints, those with them and the FC’s are in the barn. In other words these kingdom builders cannot be considered “tares” for they are doing God’s work and are authorized to be there.
Let’s also remember our history. In researching the building of Solomon’s and the Cyrus athourized temple after that, we found this helpful report —
“Preparations for rebuilding the temple.
They also gave money to the masons and the carpenters, and food, drink, and oil to the people of Sidon and Tyre to bring cedar logs from Lebanon to the sea, to Joppa, according to the permission which they had from Cyrus king of Persia.
a. They also gave money to the masons and the carpenters: Once the work of restoration began at the altar of sacrifice, they followed through by assembling and hiring the workers they needed to build the temple.
b. Cedar logs from Lebanon: The cedar trees of Lebanon were legendary for their excellent timber. This meant that they wanted to use the best materials they could in construction and the same materials that Solomon used in building the first temple (1 Kings 5:6), though they had far fewer resources than Solomon.
c. According to the permission which they had from Cyrus king of Persia: This permission was not only the legal allowance to build the temple, but it also included financial support from the royal treasury (permission can also be translated grant).
i. “Since permission to buy materials would hardly need specifying, it is reasonable to take the work to include provision as well as permission, as with our own word ‘grant’.” (Kidner)
ii. This shows that they used Gentile money to purchase the supplies (from Gentile Lebanon) to build the second temple. Solomon’s temple used Gentile supplies and laborers; God directed the building of the second temple to likewise be built with Gentile cooperation.” (Enduring Word website – Ezra 3 Report)
So Gentiles took part in buidling of God’s temple, financial and labor.
Will all the FC’s be converted to be a kingdom member? We aren’t told, but as long as they complete their God appointed duty we can only suppose they will have to accept the message while there in the land or be driven out after they are done working. Henceforth must apply after the place is safe and clean, the kingdom set. This harmonizes the references.
As a reminder we must harmonize the statements —
“No candid Bible student would build a theory upon an interpretation that would lead him to set aside all other scriptures on the subject. He will seek to make his final analysis in such a way as to be in perfect harmony with all of them, or else confess that he does not have the light on the subject.” (3 Ans, p.53)
“Let us remember always to observe the inviolable rule that an interpretation of one inspired statement must harmonize with all other related statements.” ( 3 Ans, p.41)
Another reference to consider —
“Prophetically looking forward to the church’s purified state, the prophet Zechariah saw that “every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.” Zech. 14:21. (Tract 9, p.64)
Again in order to harmonize the statements, the above must describe the time once the kingdom is set. To do other wise would be to say that once the 144,000 get to the kingdom, there cannot be any FC’s in the kingdom land (as they arrive from wicked nations) , and to say that, then they 144,000 without the FC’s must do the building. That would not harmonize and would force us to construct an illogical kingdom build up.
“Let us ever remember that those who once wrecked the ancient kingdom and cast out its people, shall now come to build it up and to cast out the horns of the Gentiles who now rule the land, so even our enemies of yesterday God puts working for us today.” ( 1 TG, no. 11, p.13)
The above statement also shows while they may not be considered brethren during their kingdom work, they are still directed to build and follow instructions to complete their task.
So bottomline is that the kingdom building will be just as the Word of the Lord tells us in the Bible and Rod. The Lord — the 144,000 — anti-typical Joshua — the Four Carpenters — others allowed to build. Once this kingdom is set up, “henceforth” .. “there shall no more be the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts”.
We hope this series has shed some light on the subject.
HearYeTheRod 