HearYeTheRod

Note: We would like to thank the brethren who have reached out to us and let us know they are being blessed by these reports. Our views have exceeded all other reports in the last 5 years. More is coming and it is our prayer that the conclusion of this series awake those who are in darkness on the end time event outline as clearly said in the Golden Bowl.

In this post we will deal with BT’s #5 point (per part 1 outline). This is one of the great issues at hand. Does the Sunday Law become Jacob’s time of trouble for the 144,000? Already we have uncovered the fact that much of his end time outline falls short due to many references the Rod discloses for end time events and It’s timeline.

#5) Upon their physical travel home they will experience JTT which is the Sunday Law persecution againt them

Let us start with perhaps what is BT’s most useful reference in showing the Sunday Law is JTT for the 144,000.

“At the end of the twenty years Jacob was homeward-bound to the promised land and his father’s house with great possessions.  By the time he arrived at his father’s house he had his twelve sons (the heads of the twelve tribes).  Before Jacob entered his father’s house he went through that terrible struggle and wrestled with the angel till the breaking of the day.  Gen. 32:24-29.

   Jacob’s wrestling with the angel typifies the time of “Jacob’s trouble” (for the church).  We read in Early Writings, pages 36, 37: “A decree went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry and night for deliverance.  This was the time of Jacob’s trouble.” See also Patriarchs and Prophets, pages 202-203.” (1 SR, p.62)

Before we go further, we should review the later light counsel in understanding unrolling of the scroll where truth develops as more light shines. The above reference was made in 1930, long before brother Houteff had the Kingdom light.


“.. there are circumstances in connection with certain aspects of every message which necessitate clarification. Such clarification, however, can be no greater than the light which shines at the time. And the light may come solely from within the message itself, or, again, it may derive from a limited understanding common to the time “then present”—an understanding which the messenger himself share. Such a case was John the Baptist’s. Inspired to declare only the coming of the King, John was squarely confronted with the question concerning the setting up of the kingdom.” ( 1 Ans., p.49)

Therefore we must conclude that the understanding of the Rod was limited and therefore It “borrowed” from SOP, this idea that the 144,000 will experience the Sunday Law persecution as JTT. We will find this true and applying up until late 1936.

Let us remember that the Kingdom light did not come into the Rod until late 1936. This borrowing is perfectly illustrated in the following 1930 SRod volume 1 chart.

Notice in the top middle of this chart where the Rod puts JTT? In the time of the sixth plague! Strictly from the limited light that SOP had on this issue. So BT, as others, need to be very careful in using pre-kingdom light references for their end time event outlines. (click the chart to enlarge)

Now, BT uses the argument that not only was 1 SR , p.62 ref. applicable, but the Rod in 1943 repeated it in the SRod Tract (see page 36).

“On this trying and testing time the Spirit of Prophecy comments: “A decree went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night for deliverance.  This was the time of Jacob’s trouble” — Early Writings, pp. 36, 37. (See also Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 202, 203.)“

Alot of that Tract includes what 1 SR had to say, so logically there is a transfer of information here. Remember VTH was still promoting the SRod volumes even after the Kingdom light came. Again 1 Ans. p.49 interpretation rule applies.On that SRod Tract, we note — Copyright, 1930, 1945, by V. T. HOUTEFF.

Also note what else was repeated — references from Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 202, 203. Let’s go there to see what it says.

“Jacob’s experience during that night of wrestling and anguish represents the trial through which the people of God must pass just before Christ’s second coming. The prophet Jeremiah, in holy vision looking down to this time, said, “We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. . . . All faces are turned into paleness. Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.” Jeremiah 30:5-7. When Christ shall cease His work as mediator in man’s behalf, then this time of trouble will begin.” (page 202)

There you go, as clear as crystal as the Rod would say, the reference is simply a repeat of the SR volume 1 publication, because we know that JTT will not come for the 144,000 “When Christ shall cease His work as mediator in man’s behalf..”

So BT would do well not to add these references to support his ideas of the Sunday Law being JTT for the 144,000. Is SOP in error? No we don’t believe so, upon close reading of these SOP references the “people of God” certainly can be the great multitude caught out in the lands yet to have made it into the Kingdom.

On that same page 202, we read —

“Such will be the experience of God’s people in their final struggle with the powers of evil. God will test their faith, their perseverance, their confidence in His power to deliver them.”

So this JTT could be applying to the great multitude, stuck outside the kingdom and not able to arrive there yet. Again let us remember our prophetess Ellen White was not to give the Elijah message, and the light she had on the 144,000 was limited.

Ok let us now look at what the Rod says concerning our subject Bible verse —

“And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”(Rev. 12:15-17)

The first interpretation from the Rod we found that gives the clearest and most illuminating light on these Scriptures is found in 7 SC, no.7-12, made in July 1941. And we will find the Rod does not deviate from this understanding. It expounds more, yes, but does not change from It’s plain principles set forth here throughout the message.

“Since it is after the earth swallows the flood, that the dragon is to be wroth with the woman and to go “to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” (Rev. 12:16, 17), there is no escaping the conclusion that the harvest, in taking away Satan’s flood, his multiplied tares, does not bring the millennium of peace. Indeed not, but rather it brings his wrath—the time of trouble such as never was: the time in which God’s people in Babylon are called to “come out of her” and into His purified church—the Kingdom.

The harvest, therefore, is a short period of time just before, rather than the moment at, the appearing of Christ in the clouds. It is the very last days of probation for earth’s kingdoms,—the days and work which bring the end of the world.

The fact that there is a remnant (that which is left) of the seed of the woman, shows that her seed is divided into two parts, and that consequently the symbolism represents three groups of people: (1) the woman; (2) the first part of her seed—those who in this instance are not the remnant; (3) the second part of her seed—those who are the remnant.

In the light of this symbolical representation, the woman, herself, is seen to symbolize the mother-part of the church—God’s appointed and Spirit-filled ministers who bring in the born-again (John 3:3) converts. The first part of her seed must, accordingly, be the first fruits, the 144,000, who, separated from the sinners that were among them, are taken to Mount Sion, there to stand with the Lamb (Rev. 14:1). Hence, “the remnant of her seed” are in this instance those who are yet in the world when Babylon rides the beast (Rev. 17). Thus they are the second and last fruits which are to be taken to the purified church, the kingdom, where there is neither sin nor fear of the plagues falling (Rev. 18:4).

And now, since in her progression of time, the woman represents each successive ministry, therefore at the time that the dragon is wroth with her, she necessarily must represent the last ordained ministry, the 144,000, those who bring all their brethren from all nations to God’s “holy mountain Jerusalem.” Isa. 66:20.

With this light shining on the subject, the truth is clearly seen that after the earth swallows the flood, after the angels separate the wicked (“the tares,” the “bad”—”fish”) from the righteous (the “wheat,” the “good”—”fish”) in the church, and take the righteous to Mount Sion (“the barn,” “the vessels”—Matt. 13:30, 48), the dragon will then be angry with the woman (the servants of God), and as a result will war against the remnant (the second fruits, those who are then to be called out of Babylon—Rev. 18:4).” ( 7 SC, no.7-12, p.9)

Clear facts illuminated from this inspired interpretation! Unfortunately much of which is ignored by BT’s outline.

1) Three parts in this Word of God. The Woman (church) , the first part of her seed –144,000, the second part of her seed — the great multitude.

2) Rev.12:15-17 speaks of the dragon making war with the remant of her seed, which will be against the GM. NOT the 144,000.

3) After Ezek. 9 the 144,000 are taken to the Kingdom to stand with the Lamb upon Mt. Sion, out of the dragon’s reach.

4) The first “warring” by the Sunday Law against God’s people will be against the GM.


Again to repeat, this above inspired Word goes opposite BT’s theories. He tells us instead of being taken to Mt. Sion after Ezek. 9 the 144,000 stay in their adopted lands for an extended time. Further, he says it is the 144,000 that the dragon wars with first. And because of this warring first, he deducts or constructs his idea that this must be JTT on their way to kingdom. Private construction and interpretation.


So the above ref was the first one, let us look at the second one.

 “This time of trouble is foreshadowed by the present trouble which the church is bringing upon the first fruits, those who are being sealed, marked, in her midst, to be removed to the kingdom — the barn (Matt. 13:30), the vessels (Matt. 13:48).

   Consequently, as the making of the image of the beast (Rev. 13:11-18) is, in prophecy, the only world-wide event of this kind, and as the great multitude with palms in their hands come out of great tribulation, the only logical conclusion is that after the 144,000 are sealed, and while the winds are blowing, the second fruits will be gathered and the work of the gospel closed.

 The trouble will burst forth as the two-horned beast decrees “that no man might buy or sell, save he that [has] the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” Rev. 13:17.  Thus will the dragon be “wroth with the woman” and “make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Rev. 12:17.  And at the same time the angels will be allowed to hurt all who trouble the church of God, and who attempt to join it in the same way as the tares now do.  In thus hurting the wicked, the angels execute “the wrath of the Lamb.” In view of this, the Lord asks, “who shall be able to stand?” Rev. 6:17.  It is “the great and dreadful day of the Lord” (Mal. 4:5), and “the sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites.” Hence the questions: “Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?  who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?” — Only those who see themselves in need of everything.” (Tract 9, p.58-59)


We see confirmation of the prior reference (7 SC, no.7-12, p.9) and stays consistent with it’s teachings. Further we see that after Ezek. 9, instead of the saints being persecuted by the SL as JTT, God’s angel’s will then be able to “hurt all who trouble the church”. That is why RP’s postition of JTT not being a literal persecution from the SL, but just as in type, a PERCEPTION OF TROUBLE to come to them as they travel to the Kingdom causing a mental anquish, is the correct understanding. Thus type meets antitype in JTT. You will notice RP’s postition always shows this type/antitype understanding whereas BT’s does not.

Our next reference–


“Stirred to fury over her purification, the dragon will make war “with the remnant of her seed.”  Against her personally, though, he will not war, because her communicants, the 144,000 (the first fruits — Rev. 7:3-8; 14:4), those who go first into the kingdom, stand with the Lamb, the King, on Mount Sion (Rev. 14:1) His palace grounds.  Thus being the rulers of the tribes, they are symbolized by the crowned woman.  And being in their own land, they are protected from the dragon who consequently persecutes only the “remnant,” those who are left behind, who are still in Babylon but who are finally called out of her (Rev. 18:4).” (Tract 12, p.44)

Once again powerful confirmation of inspiration’s postiton. AFTER the church purification, the dragon does what? “..the dragon will make war “with the remnant of her seed.”  Against her personally, though, he will not war, because her communicants, the 144,000 (the first fruits — Rev. 7:3-8; 14:4), those who go first into the kingdom, stand with the Lamb, the King, on Mount Sion (Rev. 14:1) His palace grounds.“

How much confirmation do the naysayers need?

“Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!” (Luke 24:25)

Next reference —

“It being a foregone conclusion that Satan is against the saints, and that the Lord is against the truth-hating and evil-doing multitude, the  subject becomes crystal clear: When let loose, the winds are to strike against the faithful “remnant,” against those who are left after the earth has opened her mouth and swallowed up “the flood,” the “tares” (Rev. 12:16, 17); but the angels who are stationed to hurt, are  to smite those who make war against the remnant.  Those whose names are found in the book, are “delivered.” Dan. 12:1.  Seeing that the 144,000, the servants of God, are not as yet sealed (not yet enclosed, protected, guarded, and ready to take their stand with the Lamb on Mt. Sion, but rather are still commingled with the tares) the angels are commanded to forestall the clash.

Let’s break this down before we continue. Notice it is after Ezek. 9 the winds are to “strike against the faithful “remnant” which in this case are the 144,000. And when does that happen? AFTER they are “enclosed, protected, guarded, and ready to take their stand with the Lamb on Mt. Sion“. Then it is that once they go out from the Kingdom for their missionary tour, the dragon will begin the clash at which time “the angels who are stationed to hurt are to smite those who make war with the remnant”.

Yet the dragon shall fail miserably as shown in the below reference.

Then those who are left, “the remnant,” the escaped of Israel” (Isa. 4:2), the first contingent of commandos for Christ, “will put such firmness and decision into their testimonies that they will make a break against the barriers of Satan.” — Testimonies to Ministers, p. 413. They will “bruise his head” when he goes to make war against them (Gen. 3:15; Rev. 12:16, 17).“(WHR, p.61-62)

Continuing with Tract 15 ref —

Consequently, when this sealing work is completed, then the angels who hold the winds, will let the winds blow, and the angels who are to hurt the earth, sea, and trees, will then commence their given work.  Otherwise stated, to let the winds blow, is to permit the two-horn beast to decree “that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed” (Rev. 13:15); and to let the angels hurt, is to allow the Lord’s decree to take its course: “If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb.” Rev. 14:9, 10. (Tract 15, p.61-62)

The winds let loose develop into the SL, not that the SL forms right after Ezek.9. as that would throw much of the end time event scenario out of harmony with too many references and the Harvest Chart. Remember this whole end time scenario must have harmony with all the pertinent references. This idea of immediate SL happening after Ezek. 9 is sometimes taught by those not reading correctly the references and harmonizing the whole picture. Their puzzle of truth of this JTT/SL/144 issue has gapping holes which cannot be God’s truth.

Continuing with the same Tract 15, we read —

 “The “earth,” God’s mighty weapon, is finally to help the woman.  It is to swallow up the “flood”; that is, the same Divine means which, according to the parable, takes away the tares and burns them, likewise takes away all who have joined thechurch but who are still pagan at heart.  And what happens then? — The Scriptures supply the answer:

   “And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Rev. 12:17.

   The term “remnant” discloses that her seed is divided into two parts: The one is taken, the other is left.  Nehemiah, for example, explains: “The remnant that are left of the captivity there in the province are in great affliction and reproach.”  Neh. 1:3.  A “remnant” always represents one part of  the whole, either large or small.

   And notice that the dragon wars, not against a remnant of the “flood,” but against the remnant of her seed.  Christ being the woman’s only child, her seed are therefore the Christians, those who are born into the church through the Spirit of Christ.  Accordingly, the act of taking the first fruits to Mount Sion (Rev. 14:1) brings about a condition which makes a remnant of those who are still left among the Gentiles.  In this instance, therefore, they, the second fruits, are the remnant.

   Let it be remembered that it is after the earth swallows the flood that the dragon is to be wroth with the woman, and “to make war with the remnant of her seed [not with her personally], which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Rev. 12:16 17.  Clearly, then, there is no escaping the conclusion that the doing away with Satan’s flood is doubtless  the purifying of the church, the destroying of  those who have joined the church through the aid of the serpent.  This purifying is the very thing that enables the church as a body to keep the commandments of God and also to have the testimony of Jesus Christ, the living Spirit of Prophecy (Rev. 19:10), in her midst.  This is her only hope, her only strength, her only deliverance. ” (Tract 15, p. 87-89)

Amen! Let it be remembered that it is after the earth swallows the flood that the dragon is to be wroth with the woman, and “to make war with the remnant of her seed [not with her personally], which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Rev. 12:16 17. 

Putting together both parts of Tract 15, we see that, yes the dragon “wars” with the 144,000 but that is after they get to the kingdom NOT before. Before that he can only war with the GM. During their missionary tour both the 144, 000 and the GM experience this warring, yet as we read, this will give God’s servants (144,000) an opportunity to defeat the enemy at every turn (led by the angels allowed to hurt all those who trouble the church) thereby showing the world who has God’s power and truth.

Next reference —

  “Chapter 12 takes us even further back in time than chapter 11, way beyond the birth of Christ, then forward to the time the earth opens her mouth and swallows up the flood, and to the time of the remnant (the remnant are those who are left after the others are swallowed up by the earth).  They as a people keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. They are persecuted by the dragon immediately after the earth swallows up the flood. ” (2 TG, no.14, p.17)

Ah, now this one requires us to harmonize this with another statement so we can make sense of it. We notice “They are persecuted by the dragon immediately after the earth swallows up the flood.” Could this be persecution from the Sunday law?
BT says that it is not until the saints are in the time the woman rides the scarlet colored beast, that the saints shall be persecuted by the SL. So according to him, “immediately” is not to mean immediately after Ezek.9 and must be seen as a figurative word not taken literally. If we start to go down this road where do we stop? Further our inspired counsel says —

“…as there are no useless words in either of the writings, those who desire to know the truth must carefully mark every word, otherwise they will never comprehend the truth and, as a consequence, they will be driven by the winds as the waves of the sea until the winds cease blowing (probation closes), and they be left to sink down in their sins as do the waves in the sea.”(SC, vol. 2, no.7-8, p.10)

“…when we take into consideration the meaning of each word instead of making thoughtless and hasty conclusions, the Scriptures prove to be not only most perfect and wonderful and yet simple, but also inspiring, making wise the humble — and lightening the path of him who as did Christ, delights to do the will of God.” (SC, vol. 2, no. 2, p.3)

So how are we to understand this? We must conclude that this “persecution” shall be in another form and begin right after Ezek.9. Remember this destroying his flood brings on his wrath against the 144,000. How do we know this persecution is not the SL? Let us read–

“The only thing that would compel him to pass blue Sunday laws and go “to make war with the remnant of her seed” (with those that are left, Rev. 12:17) is the purity of the church when God by the slaughter weapons of Ezekiel Nine takes away the tares which received not the mark, and even then Satan will not enact “blue Sunday laws” until after he has exhausted every other weapon against the church.( 2 SC, no.1, p.9-10)

Next reference —


“And the serpent [the Devil] cast out of his mouth water as a flood [unconverted multitude] after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.  And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth [did away with the hypocrites, doubters, and men-followers]. And the dragon was wroth with the woman [the church], and went to make war with the remnant [with those that escaped] of her seed [those that are truly her children] which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Rev. 12:15-17.

   Thus both Scripture and logic make clear that these escaped and separated ones are the remnant people of God, in fact.

   Once the church is purified, — the sinners removed from her midst, — then the call made by “the remnant” for God’s people to come out of Babylon, goes forth in a very loud voice:

   “And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” Rev. 18:4.

   These called out ones are, as the Scriptures make clear, beckoned to a place (Eze. 36:24; Isa. 66:20) where there is no sin (Isa. 35:8; 52:1; 62:12) and no fear of the plagues falling upon them (Isa. 4:5, 6; 32:17-20; Ps. 91:10); that is they are gathered into the purified church of God — the kingdom of the First Fruits. (GCS, p.27-28)

In keeping with the idea that the dragon goes after the 144,000, this reference backs it up. BUT, we know the “time” which this happens as explained above and shown in the Harvest Chart.

Next reference —

“Fruits” garnered are the result of a harvest. When the 144,000, the first fruits (Rev. 14:4), are garnered in, and the tares (flood) are destroyed (swallowed) from among them, the 144,000 are taken to Mt. Zion, where they then comprise the Mother church, the twelve-star-crowned woman, under the protection of the Lamb, the One with them. Thus protected, she is secure from the dragon’s then making war against her. So he wars only against her “remnant,” those yet to be garnered—the second fruits still scattered throughout the world, away from Mt. Zion.” (2 ANS, p.48)

Notice what inspiration says what happens after Ezek.9, the 144,000 are to stay in their adopted lands?? No. They are taken to Mt.Zion under the Lord’s protection. In complete harmony with what inspiration has taught us throughout this report. Inspiration has complete consistency and those who pray for the truth –find it!

“However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.”(John 16:13)

Our last reference —

“Now at the eleventh hour, therefore, the Recruiter is marshalling forces the world around to the standard of the great Prince of Truth, in preparation for Heaven’s immanent D-day assault against the abominations that are carried on by the hypocrites — by the dragon’s flood (Rev. 12:15).  Soon, though, the earth will open its mouth and swallow up “the flood.”  Then those who are left, “the remnant,” the escaped of Israel” (Isa. 4:2), the first contingent of commandos for Christ, “will put such firmness and decision into their testimonies that they will make a break against the barriers of Satan.” — Testimonies to Ministers, p. 413. They will “bruise his head” when he goes to make war against them (Gen. 3:15; Rev. 12:16, 17).” (WHR, p.61-62)

We love this one, and as shown above, it shows even though the dragon “attempts” to persecute (war) with the 144,000, he will have NO Success!

In summary brethren, BT’s ideas once again fall flat as nothing more than private construction and interpretation, a thing warned against in the Golden Bowl. What is at the heart of his false ideas is that instead of just teaching that the SL persecution(attempted) comes to the saints (144,000) after the Kingdom is set as clearly shown by inspiration, he contructs it before the Kingdom and inserts it as Jacob’s time of trouble for the 144K, completely a private theory and leading others astray!

“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.”(2 Peter 1:20)

“We have reached a time when things are to be called by their right name. As we did in the earlier days, we must arise, and, under the Spirit of God, rebuke the work of deception.” (2 SLM, p.26)

“The Bible and the books of the Spirit of Prophecy being the sole source of the Shepherd’s Rod message, therefore when the Rod is taught, the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy are taught. And since none but the Spirit of Truth, who transmitted the mysteries of Inspiration, can interpret them, then those who attempt to teach them without this inspired interpretational Authority, inevitably fall into the forbidden practice of private interpretation (2 Pet. 1:20) — the great evil which has brought Christendom into its present almost-boundless state of schism and consequent confusion, strife, and impotency.

As we dare not follow in such a path, we must therefore, as teachers of The Shepherd’s Rod (the official publications of the Davidian S.D.A. Association), teach only in the light of the Rod those passages which in one way or another need to be interpreted. Thus only will all Present Truth believers ever become of the same mind, seeing eye to eye and speaking the same things (1 Cor. 1:10; 1 Pet. 3:8; Isa. 52:8).

 And such as do choose to engage in private interpretation are respectfully asked to desist from teaching in the name of the Rod and at its expense. Let them, like honest men, teach in their own names and at their own expense.“ (FB Tract, p.35-36)

…To be continued

Tags: bible, christianity, faith, god, jesus

In part 3 we’ll look point #4 of BT’s timeline ideas (as outlined in Part1). As far as we know this point is advocated by BT and not any other DSDA groups. This is really a swiss cheese point (full of holes) as we’ll see when we break it down. Please remember we are following the trail, as to how BT’s scenario really plays out when looking at relavent references that need to be fit into this end time event puzzle.

Before we begin, last evening we were reviewing one of our one on one studies and want to point out BT said the following 3 points to establish why the 144,000 must stay in their adopted lands for an extended period after Ezek.9. We Shall post the video study of our meeting so every one can see and hear our study at the end of the series.

1) The 144,000 are the remnant with whom the dragon makes Sunday law persecution war against (this fact he points out is before they even get to the Kingdom).( to be dealt with in future post)
2) The Four Carpenter understanding (to be dealt with in future post)
3) The inheiritance of the SDA institutions (we already went over in part 2).


#4) Once the Sunday Law goes worldwide (Woman rides the Scarlet colored Beast) then the 144,000 begin to head home


Now let’s focus on BT’s ideas that once the woman rides the scarlet colored beast, it is THEN that the saints begin to go home via physical land travel. First in order to subscribe to this timing we must 1) disgard the several references (at least 4) that say once the Lord’s feet stands on Mt. Olives, the saints will flee quickly to where the Lord is in the holy land 2) They will ignore the Lord when He “hisses” for His people to return home at that time 3) Throw out the type (Jacob) truth that he made haste to go home after the Lord called him home (Gen. 31:3).

So obviously we see BT does not harmonize the above, but rather leaves them out for preference to another timeline. At this point, we would do well to remember the several injunctions that tell us as Bible students to —

“Let us remember always to observe the inviolable rule that an interpretation of one inspired statement must harmonize with all other related statements. ( 3 Ans, p.41)

“Those who are willing to risk all on the ground of one inspired statement and disregard another in order to carry out certain cherished ideas of their own… We would never try to establish an idea on the basis of agreeing with one passage of Scripture while disagreeing with another, for such a conclusion is as sure to be erroneous as if one should conclude that when the sun sets in the evening, it will never arise in the morning. The student of truth should harmonize”(2 SC, no. 1, p.5)

“Those who entertain the idea that there is only one sifting, and only first fruits, will never be able to harmonize every statement of the Bible and of the Spirit of Prophecy, for while their idea may perfectly harmonize in one instance, it will not in another. But the position of those who know the truth, and who all speak the same thing, will be in harmony with every inspired statement on the subject.” (2 SC, no. 12, p.7)

“No candid Bible student would build a theory upon an interpretation that would lead him to set aside all other scriptures on the subject. He will seek to make his final analysis in such a way as to be in perfect harmony with all of them, or else confess that he does not have the light on the subject.” (3 Ans, p.53)

“Though there is but one right interpretation of each Bible doctrine, yet a multitude of conflicting interpreatation are in the Christian world today, with the result that it is split into many sects and schisms (heads), with no two believing alike.” (Tract 12, p.24)

Ok, lets now look at inspiration the see what It says as to BT’s idea here.

First let us establish when it is that the message swells into the Loud Cry.

“The eighteenth chapter is a continuation of the seventeenth, and so we shall study it also:

Rev. 18:1 — “And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.”

   After what things? — After the scarlet-colored beast comes into being and while the woman, Babylon, is sitting upon him.  It is then that the earth is to be lightened with the glory of the angel, with the message of the hour.

Rev. 18:2-4 — “And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”(2 Tg, no.18, p.23-24)

Remember BT’s theory that once the scarlet colored beast comes into being, it is then that the 144,000 begin to head home?

But Inspiration tells us that ONCE THE SCARLET COLORED BEAST COMES INTO BEING it is THEN that the Loud Cry is going out. In other words, the saints are out in the Babylon domain giving the Loud Cry and not just then heading home! Further, the land travel will take time and when they finally arrive, they will see that only the secular buildings and such have been restored (apparently according to his ideas of the Four Carpenters building on their own) and not the Kingdom aspects (land divisions, Ezek.40-43 temple, etc.). So land travel time and building up the Kingdom requirements, will take some time to accomplish. All the while many souls have succumbed with the mark without warning if we go with BT’s ideas! Foolishness!

So if we go with BT’s ideas we must concede the world Sunday law is in effect and yet the saints are no where to be found! Simply illogical, shortsighted, and not in accordance with the message. Contrarily, RP’s postiton makes perfect sense as there has been much time spent in the kingdom and it is ready to go PRIOR to the time the scarlet colored beast comes into being. The Kingdom is set and the saints are already out in Babylon prepared for their Loud Cry warning message. They have received authourization from anti-typical Joshua to give the Loud Cry (see 1 TG, no.8, p.26)

The earth will be lightened with the angel’s glory warning the world of the Sunday Law so that the people can make the right choice, not leaving them to be marked into damnation!

“God does not send judgments upon His people without first warning them to repent. He uses every means to bring them back to obedience and does not visit their iniquity with judgments until He has given them ample opportunity to repent.” ( 4 Testimonies, p.179)

“No Christian of any faith can honestly deny the church’s need of purification. And as the Lord never does anything without forewarning His church,”(Tract 8, p.20)

This set up of the Kingdom prior to Satan turning against the people in the scarlet colored beast time is clearly shown as follows —

“The kingdom-church conclusively, therefore, must be “set up” before the Devil turns upon the remnant, those who are left behind and who are then being gathered, and against whom he comes to war because they refuse to worship him in the person of the beast and his image (Rev. 13:15).” (7 SC, no.7-12, p.10)

Ok, we come to our last issue with BT’s #4 point. And this one will (or should) make every Truth seeker step back and see the utter fallacy of BT’s postition.

In our study BT said (and it is recorded) that when the Scarlet colored beast comes into existence, that will be the time the Lord’s feet stands upon Mt. Olives. Let’s look at what Inspiration says.

The important verses that say “when” the Lord’s feet stands upon Mt. Olives —

At the time Jerusalem, that now is, falls, the Lord’s feet shall stand upon Mount of Olives and there make a very great valley; that is, remove the obstacles and hindrances, and thus prepare the land for the returning of His people.  Then it is that the prophecy of Zechariah 10:8 — that the Lord shall “hiss” for His people will have met its fulfillment.

Zech. 14:5 — “And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.”

   Having thus opened the way for the re-establishment of the house of Judah, His people, who beforehand have been informed of it through present Truth, will flee to the valley, to where the Lord’s feet stand, as quickly as if they were fleeing from an earthquake; and all the saints thereafter follow after them.  There are several facts in this scripture itself which prove that this event is premillenial: (1) Note that the Lord’s feet stand on the mount in the day of the war in which Jerusalem is taken by the wicked nations.  (2) Those that flee to the valley do not descend from Heaven.  (3) They can not be the wicked for they do not flee away from the Lord, but flee to Him, to where His feet stand.  (4) All the saints follow after them. “Early Writings,” p. 75, makes a double application of this scripture, a post millennial one.( 1 TG, no.19, p.4-5)
 

Ever so clearly we see Inspiration tell us the Lord’s feet stands on Mt. Olives IN THE DAY OF THE WAR IN WHICH JERUSALEM IS TAKEN BY THE WICKED NATIONS.

When will that happen brethren? Is it in the time of Zech. 14 war? Ofcourse! Jerusalem will not be taken by the wicked nations when the sacrlet colored beast comes into existence.

Zech 14:4, 5 — “And His feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.  And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.”

   “In that day.”  In what day? — In the day all nations gather against Jerusalem that now is, and bring its fall from Gentile rule.  In that day the Lord’s feet shall stand upon the Mount of Olives.  The Mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, there shall be a very great valley; “and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.” Zech. 14:4.  The Lord’s post-millennial coming, too, shall be similar to this.  See Early Writings, pp. 51, 52.

   The servants of God shall then flee to the valley of the mountains, where the Lord’s feet shall stand, and all the saints with them; that is, the Lord’s “feet” will open the way for the restoration of the Kingdom, and for the gathering of the people into it.” ( 2 TG, no. 31, p.6-7)

We rest our case here on this point. BT’s ideas are simply his own personal misreading or ignoring of the verses and consequent false timeline. RP’s postition again stands firm upon the foundation of Truth.

We urge all “present truth” believers, especially those in the Pre-11th hour ministry to stop leaning on the arm of flesh of BT, but rather –

“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15)

One last point, some have asked me if this is a salvational issue (to know this truth). Inspiration does say AFTER one comes into seeing the truth they are then held accountable to hold to that, let us read —


“No one is lost for believing a false interpretation of a prophecy before the truth of it is revealed, provided the false interpretation does not draw him away from some other truth.  Such individuals, however, are in great danger because, as history reveals, very few who become thus involved in error are willing to humble themselves by renouncing their errors and accepting the truth when it is made known.  They are consequently in constant peril of sinning against the Holy Ghost.  And being acutely aware of this, Satan misinterprets the prophecies before they are divinely revealed.  He realizes full well that many, unwilling to be corrected and to exchange their errors for revealed truth, will thereby be led to eternal ruin.” (Tract 5, p.7)

Pre-11th hour ministry needs to buckle down and let their leader know, his false ideas are built upon sand not a firm foundation. When correction is made, error actions restored, we can then know the Lord will bless it.

“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” (2 Chron. 7:14)

Tags: bible, christianity, faith, god, jesus

We’ll pick up where we left off and look at point #3.

BT — This remaining period shall be an extended time in their adopted land, and not heading homeward (Kingdom land) for a good while because of spending time obtaining SDA assets and institutions.

This extended time in the adopted land is largely based on the references based on taking over the assets and institutions of the SDA church, and the extended time it would take.


The refs —

Question: “A number of times the S.D.A. ministers have quoted the Rod as saying that after the slaughter, the ‘Rods’ think they will have possession of the denomination-including the churches, institutions, etc. I have seen nothing definite regarding this and have always been of the opinion that the 144,000 would simply inherit the truths and the message. It seems improbable that the law would allow those left to have any of the material things since most of them will have been disfellowshipped, and would we want them? Do you have anything definite on this?”

   Answer: These institutions legally belong to the members of the S.D.A. denomination and therefore, when those who do not receive the seal of God in their foreheads fall under the slaughter weapons of the angels, naturally the ones who are left will be the legal owners of all the denominational assets, and as only those who have the seal will be left, there will be no controversy about the legal ownership of the institutions. Though many will be disfellowshipped this would have no bearing as long as we stay with the denomination whether they recognize us as members or not. This condition will prove that the membership is split in factions, and as one faction passes away the other that remains would naturally constitute the denomination and control all its institutions. Moreover, the ministerial faction has neither legal right nor religious ground upon which to disfellowship any of us, for we have done nothing to give them the right to cast us out. If we even now went to law we could win back our membership, for we stand true to the fundamental principles upon which the institutions were erected and the denomination founded, but as they have departed from them and are refusing to get back, on one hand by their conduct they will prove to the legal authorities that they are unlawfully taking possession of the denomination, while on the other hand we by our good behavior will prove to be the legal owners of it. Hence, denying us membership without any legal or religious ground does not make them right and us wrong.” (1 SC, no.16, p.3-4)

“..Mt. Carmel Center is not worried about taking the institutions, but rather is concerned to effect this long-waited-for reformation. Nevertheless, as it is true that if those connected with these institutions continue to remain as they now are, the Lord has promised that He will “spue” them “out,” then, of course, the institutions which God may see fit to spare will be left to those who “sigh and cry for all the abominations that are done in the midst thereof,” of whom Mt. Carmel’s members are being made up.”(3 SC, no.11-12, p.2)


“..if we voluntarily stay away from the church services, we lay ourselves open to the charge of being offshoots from the body, and at the same time forfeit the opportunity of coming in contact with the congregation. Moreover, if in this wise we separate ourselves, then in the fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, when those who have not the “mark” are taken away, we shall not have the same right to claim an inheritance in the Denomination.” ( 4 Ans. p.32)

In 1 SC, no.16 quote we see it’s points clearly. Once Ezek.9 occurs there shall be no doubt as to remaining ownership of assets of the church. Money, vehicles, Bibles, and all other useful assets will be obtainable by the saints. However, as will be shown, this cannot involve long time consuming legal battles. No doubt angels of our Lord shall assist in this rapid process.

We really appreciate how inspiration carefully words the message. Let’s remember counsel and mark carefully what it says in 3 SC, no.11-12 quote. Notice —

“..the institutions which God may see fit to spare will be left to those who “sigh and cry for all the abominations that are done in the midst thereof,” of whom Mt. Carmel’s members are being made up.” MAY SEE FIT TO SPARE?

What does the Holy Word and message say concerning the church after the Ezekiel 9 church judgment, let us read —

 “And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name”(Isa. 65:15)

The denominational name will they leave to God’s servants; that is, to those who escape from the Lord’s sword shall the name consequently be left.  The name, however, is left only as a curse, and His servants will be called by another name which “the mouth of the Lord shall name.”(1 TG, no.44, p.7-8)

  “Looking forward to this day of purification, Zechariah prophesies: “In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts:…and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.” Zech. 14:20, 21.

   Envisioning the same scene, the prophet Isaiah declares: “And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name. Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God. Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken;…thou shalt be called Hephzibah…The holy people.” Isa. 62:2-4, 12.(Tract 3, p.74)

“Speaking of the church, he declares: “And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto My chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call His servants by another name.” Isa. 65:15.

Plainly, therefore, in the time when Assyria crumbles, the Lord is to perform a dual work among His professed people, some of whom will be made free because of their faithfulness, and some of whom will be slain because of their wickedness.  The delivered ones will then be  called by another name.”( Tract 14, p.18)

After reading these clear references, we know beyond doubt that the remaining SDA church’s name and therefore anything connected to it — shall be a curse. Remember, one of our inspired counsels is to be logical thinker and close reasoner. We can see that there cannot be any reason for a long legal battle to take over institutions that are cursed! The saints will run from any connection to all things Seventh-day Adventist, not try to obtain them. Education, Administrative, Health and all other SDA entities will no longer have God’s blessings but instead a curse! So God will see fit to spare nothing obviously. His word harmonizes both the “taking over” aspects with what will be obtainable in this understanding. Again, a reminder HARMONIZATION is a must —

“No candid Bible student would build a theory upon an interpretation that would lead him to set aside all other scriptures on the subject. He will seek to make his final analysis in such a way as to be in perfect harmony with all of them, or else confess that he does not have the light on the subject.” (3 Ans, p.53)


Any tangible and useful assets from the church can and most likely be obtained in a rapid manner as rapid preparations are made for the saints travel Kingdom bound. No doubt Angels will be helping in this regard. Specifically the saints will logically obtain the assets that will be useful as mentioned above.

Now why do we say “rapid preparations”? Let us read —

 “Zech. 14:3, 4 — “Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.  And His feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.”

   At the time Jerusalem, that now is, falls, the Lord’s feet shall stand upon Mount of Olives and there make a very great valley; that is, remove the obstacles and hindrances, and thus prepare the land for the returning of His people.  Then it is that the prophecy of Zechariah 10:8 — that the Lord shall “hiss” for His people will have met its fulfillment.

Zech. 14:5 — “And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.”

   Having thus opened the way for the re-establishment of the house of Judah, His people, who beforehand have been informed of it through present Truth, will flee to the valley, to where the Lord’s feet stand, as quickly as if they were fleeing from an earthquake; and all the saints thereafter follow after them.  There are several facts in this scripture itself which prove that this event is premillenial: (1) Note that the Lord’s feet stand on the mount in the day of the war in which Jerusalem is taken by the wicked nations.  (2) Those that flee to the valley do not descend from Heaven.  (3) They can not be the wicked for they do not flee away from the Lord, but flee to Him, to where His feet stand.  (4) All the saints follow after them. “Early Writings,” p. 75, makes a double application of this scripture, a post millennial one.( 1 TG, no.19, p.4-5)

“Just before the kingdom of Judah is established in Jerusalem, the city shall be besieged, the houses shall be rifled and women ravished.  Not all, though, shall go into captivity.  The residue are not cut off from the city, they obviously become a part of the house of Judah.  At that time, when Jerusalem has fallen and the Lord has removed all obstacles and hindrances for the gathering of His people, then it is that the house of Judah is re-established.  God’s people shall flee to the “valley” as quickly as though they were fleeing from an earthquake.  The Lord smites the armies of the nations, while at the same time He protects and exalts His own people.” (1 TG, no. 19, p.8)

Zech 14:4, 5 — “And His feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.  And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.”

   “In that day.”  In what day? — In the day all nations gather against Jerusalem that now is, and bring its fall from Gentile rule.  In that day the Lord’s feet shall stand upon the Mount of Olives.  The Mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, there shall be a very great valley; “and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.” Zech. 14:4.  The Lord’s post-millennial coming, too, shall be similar to this.  See Early Writings, pp. 51, 52.

   The servants of God shall then flee to the valley of the mountains, where the Lord’s feet shall stand, and all the saints with them; that is, the Lord’s “feet” will open the way for the restoration of the Kingdom, and for the gathering of the people into it.” ( 2 TG, no. 31, p.6-7)

“Obviously one part of the Gentile nations shall come against the part that is in the Holy Land, and chase them out to make room for God’s people.  Then will the Lord’s feet stand on Mount Olives and the Mount shall cleave in the midst thereof and make therein a very great valley.  Thus shall the Lord open the way for His people to flee there to the “valley” where the Lord’s feet stand, and all the saints with them (Zech. 14:4, 5).”( 2 TG, no. 44, p.50-51)



Four repeated references saying 1) when the Lord’s feet stand upon Mt. Olives the saints shall “flee” there to where the Lord is, in the Holy Land. 2) The Lord’s feet can only be standing there at the time of the Zech. 14 war. Not any other time later. Unfortunately these straight clear words of the Lord, is not addressed “as it reads” in BT’s endtime event timeline. If we start to ignore, cancel, sweep under the rug, clear plain verses of the message, where do we stop? The pieces of the puzzle MUST fit and God made a clear endtime scenario for us, IF we will read it and believe it.

But this is not all, we also have the type Jacob. When the Lord told Jacob to go home (Gen 31:3) he called for Rachel and Leah, and make rapid preparations to begin home. He did not stay long in his adopted land. When the Lord completes His clearing of the land for the 144,000 we read —

“At the time Jerusalem, that now is, falls, the Lord’s feet shall stand upon Mount of Olives and there make a very great valley; that is, remove the obstacles and hindrances, and thus prepare the land for the returning of His people. Then it is that the prophecy of Zechariah 10:8 — that the Lord shall “hiss” for His people — will have met its fulfillment.” (1 TG, no.19, p.4)

The Lord will call for His people to return! Will God’s people ignore this calling? Of course not! BT’s view say they will, continuing to stay in their adopted land for quite a while. That view does not meet type and does not acknowledge He will call (Hiss) for His people at the conclusion of Zech.14 war.

Lastly, the Harvest Chart shows the woman sitting upon the seven heads (Church federation)and one of those heads is NOT the SDA church. The SDA church ceases to exist, is cursed, and the saints cannot spend a long drawn out legal battle to take over these institutions God has cursed.

Thus we see that once Ezek.9 happens, the war is over, the saints know their calling, and just as our type did, they will not delay in making preparation to begin their homeward travel.

On point #3 we see once again RP’s views holdup under close scrutiny and harmonizing the references.

Tags: bible, christianity, faith, god, jesus

Note: This will be a multi-part report as we have alot to go through.

For some reason, the issue of what will be Jacob’s time of trouble lingers among our Ministry, as our people really would like unity on this subject. As some know, yours truly and brother Terry Harrison, have differing views on this. His being that JTT is caused by the Sunday Law, and mine being we are not told exactly what JTT will be in the Lord’s Elijah message (Shepherd’s Rod). The view I come to, is that although we do not know exactly what will be JTT, we do know from the message that after Ezek.9 the saints will proceed to make ready their travel and head home, and on their way (physically travelling) they shall experience JTT.

As we have done in the past, when another view is presented, one of the best ways to see if that view is sustainable and logical (truth indeed), is to put all the pieces of that view together and then break it down one by one with references to see if it a) goes by weight of evidence b) is harmonious with the references c) makes logical sense. We shall now do that with our views.

Our guidelines shall be the references and the Harvest Chart and inspired counsel — Be a Logical thinker and Close reasoner.

Let’s briefly compact BT’s (brother Terry’s) view:

#1) Ezek. 9 comes during the Zech. 14 war ( Tract 14, p.22)
#2) After this war and Ezek.9, the 144,000 remain in their adopted lands
#3) This remaining period shall be an extended time in their adopted land, and not heading homeward (Kingdom land) for a good while because of spending time obtaining SDA assets and institutions
#4) Once the Sunday Law goes worldwide (Woman rides the Scarlet colored Beast) then the 144,000 begin to head home
#5) Upon their physical travel home they will experience JTT which is the Sunday Law persecution againt them
#6) After JTT they arrive in the Kingdom
#7) Upon arrival they see that the four carpenters have built up the Kingdom
#8) Once they are there they stand on Mt. Zion with the Lamb
#9) They then go out to do the Loud Cry

RP’s view:

#1) Ezek. 9 comes during the Zech. 14 war (Tract 14, p.22)
#2) After this war and Ezek.9, the 144,000 make ready and preparations to head home
#3) Once the issues are cleared (Travel arrangements, collecting any assets from the SDA church made available) they begin their physical travel home
#4) On their way they experience JTT
#5) After JTT they arrive in the Kingdom
#6) They stand with the Lamb on Mt. Zion
#7) They meet two groups of people — Those whom the Lord has spared from the war, and the four carpenters (builders)
#8) The building commences, with the Lord directing, the four carpenters and 144,000 go forward in building up the Kingdom
#9) Once the Kingdom is set and anti-typical Joshua authorizes the 144,000, they go out to do the Loud Cry

#1. Both views agree to this starting point

#2. We’ll now look at references BT uses to support this idea. The general thinking and this is not uncommon in Davidia, is that the saints will spend time in the “wilderness” and that they will spend time “taking over” the assets and institutions of the SDA church. Thus, they will have to be in their adopted land for an extended period of time.

“Thus says the LORD: “The people who survived the sword Found grace in the wilderness— Israel, when I went to give him rest.” (Jer. 31:2)

“The people who survive their captivity, are to find grace in the lands of the Gentiles — in “the wilderness,” away from the vineyard. (Since the Promised Land is the vineyard — Isaiah 5 — then what would the wilderness be but the lands of the Gentiles?) God’s people will find this grace at the time the Lord causes them to rest from their “sojourning” — after the “Judgment in the house of God” (1 Pet. 4:17) takes place.”(1 TG, no.48, p.20)

The above reference is the only Rod reference that explains what Jer.31:2 means for us. Both of the views agree to this rest to come after Ezek.9 except for the timing.

But now let’s take a look at our type Jacob. In 1 TG, no.47, we find one of the most detailed reports on JTT in the message, and certainly the most applicable. The early pre-Kingdom references in the Rod volumes certainly have to be taken as “borrowing” from the light shining at that time (See 1 Ans. p.49) which was mostly SOP.

Every DSDA should know that SOP had limited light on the full developments of the 144,000 and JTT.

Ok, back to 1 TG, no.47. In that sermon address, we notice inspiration makes a statement of type and antitype.

“That which happened to Jacob is sure to happen to us, and how comforting to know all this ahead of time. Now, if never before we should see that where there is a type there is also an antitype, and that where there is no type, there is no Truth.”(1 TG, no.47, p.15)

So what happened to Jacob in his finding grace and rest in the wilderness?

1. Jacob did not find this in his adopted land but outside of it on his travelling journey.

2. Jacob met the angels of God on his travel homeward.

“Jacob went on his way, and the angels of God met him. When Jacob saw them, he said, “This is God’s camp.” And he called the name of that place Mahanaim.”(Gen. 32:1-2)

We all know a “camp” is signifying a place of rest, is it not? To see God’s angels and to rest at camp certainly would indicate finding grace and rest. But the key point is that this did not occur in his place of abode , his adopted land.

Now if we go with BT’s view we have to conclude our adopted lands where we live is where we’ll experince the grace and rest. This does not meet type in any respect. Thus our type in this regard shows truth — finding grace and rest on the travel outside his adopted land , not in it.

On this #2 point, RP’s postition is upheld based on type.

This concludes part 1 and we’ll pick up later and go over additional points.

Tags: bible, christianity, faith, god, jesus

Many Davidians learn one of the first most basic truths of the message when they come into the present truth message of Elijah. That is Testimonies to Ministers, page 445. Let us read.

“John sees the elements of nature–earthquake, tempest, and political strife– represented as being held by four angels. These winds are under control until God gives the word to let them go. There is the safety of God’s church. The angels of God do His bidding, holding back the winds of the earth, that the winds should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree, until the servants of God should be sealed in their foreheads. The mighty angel is seen ascending from the east (or sunrising). This mightiest of angels has in his hand the seal of the living God, or of Him who alone can give life, who can inscribe upon the foreheads the mark or inscription, to whom shall be granted immortality, eternal life. It is the voice of this highest angel that had authority to command the four angels to keep in check the four winds until this work was performed, and until he should give the summons to let them loose….This sealing of the servants of God is the same that was shown to Ezekiel in vision. John also had been a witness of this most startling revelation.”(TM, p.444-445)


Here we see that both the sealing of the saints (144,000) and the church judgment of Ezekiel 9 are the SAME EVENT. Meaning that if we take this literal word and stand upon it as truth we know that there will not be a separation of time from the completion of the sealing upon the 144,000 and Ezekiel 9. Further, the Rod confirms the above statement over 30 times in message!

For example just one of them —

“The angel of Revelation 7, who prophetically sealed the 144,000, is the same as the one of Ezekiel Nine, who marked those who signed and cried for the abominations in the church. Says the Spirit of Prophecy: “This mightiest of angels (Rev. 7:2) has in his hand the seal of the living God, or of Him who alone can give life, who can inscribe upon the foreheads the mark or inscription, to whom shall be granted immortality, eternal life. It is the voice of this highest angel that had authority to command the four angels to keep in check the four winds until this work was performed, and until he should give the summons to let them loose….This sealing of the servants of God is the same that was shown to Ezekiel in vision.” — “Testimonies to Ministers,” pp. 444, 445.( 2 SC, no. 5-6, p.10)

Strangely however, some Davidians, particularly those who have been taught from the historical line of DSDA teachers coming from bro. Don Adair, say there will be a separation of time! I know, unbelieveable. Yet they think this mostly because of the new codes and their fallacy teaching of Jacob’s time of trouble coming before Ezekiel 9, Assyrian confederacy and so forth.

The last several days we have engaged in a study of a well known (and fairly popular) present truth teacher who has tried to tell us that the 144,000 will experience JTT before Ezekiel 9, be called before the courts to answer for our faith, etc. we have tried many angles to show him this cannot be sustained by the published writings of VTH (not Florence Houteff).

Let us just explain a few points we have tried to get across to these misguided brethren. First as the JTT, we know that in 1 TG, no.47 it says —

“That which happened to Jacob is sure to happen to us, and how comforting to know all this ahead of time. Now, if never before we should see that where there is a type there is also an antitype, and that where there is no type, there is no Truth.” (page 15)

Their postition is that, for example, we here in the USA are already journeying on the way home to the kingdom while still in our adopted land. What?? Does that fit type brethren? Did Jacob experience JTT whil in his adopted land, Labans? Of course not. He was well on his travel homeward, in fact almost 90% there. Stike one.

Next , as the anti-type Jacob is shown to be the 144,000 from the message, how is it that they even exist and are disclosed to view before that number is sealed? Remember we are told the sealing of the 144,000 is the same as Ezekiel 9. Further we have solid confirmation that the Rod gives a directive — we are NOT to do something in understanding this sealing process. Let us read–

“And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt Thou destroy all the residue of Israel in Thy pouring out of Thy fury upon Jerusalem?  Then said He unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great,…and as for Me also, Mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity.” Ezek. 9:8-10.

   After the sighing and crying ones were marked (which is not to be understood as being consummated in its entirety worldwide before the slaying follows anywhere), the slaughter completed, and the matter reported, the Lord “spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city.” Ezek. 10:2.” (Tract 1, p.38-39)

Wow, clearly we are told we are not to understand that the sealing is consummated before Ezekiel 9! Yet many are telling us to understand it opposite of Inspiration. You see brethren our adversary is like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8). Strike two.

Our foundational beliefs, which is our fundamental beliefs state a clear sequence of events , let us read —


“4. That the destruction of the tares from among the first fruits of the living (Matt. 13:30, 48, 49; Ezek. 9:6, 7) results in the purification of the church.

   5. That immediately thereafter, the angels let loose the four winds (Rev. 7:1-3), whereupon ensues the time of trouble and Michael’s standing up to deliver from it, all whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life (Dan. 12:1).

   6. That the angels’ letting loose the four winds to blow over the four corners of the earth (Rev. 7:1), does not anticipate a World war but rather a world wide decree enforced throughout Babylon by the image-beast, and that then no one may buy or sell save he who worships “the image.” Rev. 13:15-17.

   7. That subsequently, the time of Jacob’s trouble (Jer. 30:7) for the 144,000, the sons of Jacob, logically develops on their way home (Gen. 32:1, 24) to the land of their fathers (Ezek. 36:28; 37:21, 25).” (FB Tract, p.12-13)

JTT is subsequent to what? Ezekiel 9! Even an outsider of our faith would read this and understand this sequence. Too plain and too clear, yet the enemy of souls has his teachers try to blind us of God’s message. Strike three.

They have struck out and stand without a firm foundation. But those who trust in the Lord sending His Spirit of Truth (John 16:13) shall clearly see and know what God’s message of Elijah says. Stand firm brethren as our enemy has his teachers and God has his. Study and do not fail to “rightly divide the word of truth.”(2 Tim. 2:15)

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As the picture shows, according to the Rod message, God’s people will flee quickly as if fleeing an earthquake at the arrival of a prophetic event. A close and dear sister reached out to us recently via Facebook and enquired the following “Is Jacob’s time of trouble going to be the Sunday law, for the 144,000?”

A great and timely question! But in order to answer that we find it helpful to discuss what the message says about what happens right after Ezekiel 9. What do those who “escape” the judgment in the house of God do?

The following is a verbatim response we gave her and it sets a firm foundation as to her question. Be Blessed.

To start with, we find the study of the 4 Carpenters and the 144,000 gives us a good foundational basis
to see how the 144,000 cannot possibly go through the SL unless we want to discard harmonization. Both
the Rod and SOP tell us we must do. Note the following — 


“Let us remember always to observe the inviolable rule that an interpretation of one inspired statement must harmonize with all other related statements. ( 3 Ans, p.41)

“Those who are willing to risk all on the ground of one inspired statement and disregard another in order to carry out certain cherished ideas of their own… We would never try to establish an idea on the basis of agreeing with one passage of Scripture while disagreeing with another, for such a conclusion is as sure to be erroneous as if one should conclude that when the sun sets in the evening, it will never arise in the morning. The student of truth should harmonize”(2 SC, no. 1, p.5)

“Those who entertain the idea that there is only one sifting, and only first fruits, will never be able to harmonize every statement of the Bible and of the Spirit of Prophecy, for while their idea may perfectly harmonize in one instance, it will not in another. But the position of those who know the truth, and who all speak the same thing, will be in harmony with every inspired statement on the subject.” (2 SC, no. 12, p.7)

“No candid Bible student would build a theory upon an interpretation that would lead him to set aside all other scriptures on the subject. He will seek to make his final analysis in such a way as to be in perfect harmony with all of them, or else confess that he does not have the light on the subject.” (3 Ans, p.53)

“Though there is but one right interpretation of each Bible doctrine, yet a multitude of conflicting interpretation are in the Christian world today, with the result that it is split into many sects and schisms (heads), woth no two believing alike.” (Tract 12, p.24)



So let’s ask this important question — How soon do the 144,000 leave for the kingdom after Ezek. 9?


There are the following Rod quotes that brings light to this question —

Zech. 14:5 — “And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.”

   Having thus opened the way for the re-establishment of the house of Judah, His people, who beforehand have been informed of it through present Truth, will flee to the valley, to where the Lord’s feet stand, as quickly as if they were fleeing from an earthquake; and all the saints thereafter follow after them. ( 1 TG, no. 19, p.4-5)

Note it is talking of when the Lord’s feet stand on Mt. Olives in the time of the Zech. 14 war. And what do the 144,000 do? Stand around and wait? Stay in their own country for a while? No, not according to this reference. They “flee” quickly to the Holy land at that time, which also is at the conclusion of Ezek.9 (see Tract 14, p.22 where it says the while the great war is on, Ezek. 9 comes).

“Just before the kingdom of Judah is established in Jerusalem, the city shall be besieged, the houses shall be rifled and women ravished.  Not all, though, shall go into captivity.  The residue are not cut off from the city, they obviously become a part of the house of Judah.  At that time, when Jerusalem has fallen and the Lord has removed all obstacles and hindrances for the gathering of His people, then it is that the house of Judah is re-established.  God’s people shall flee to the “valley” as quickly as though they were fleeing from an earthquake.  The Lord smites the armies of the nations, while at the same time He protects and exalts His own people.” (1 TG, no. 19, p.8)

Again the point is repeated. They flee quickly to the Holy land once war happens and sometime during it Ezek. 9 does as well. Remember, once Ezekiel 9 happens the 144,000 saints will have no doubt that they have a job to do from the message and that is to get back to the land to set up the kingdom for the great multitude to come into.

Zech 14:4, 5 — “And His feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.  And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.”

   “In that day.”  In what day? — In the day all nations gather against Jerusalem that now is, and bring its fall from Gentile rule.  In that day the Lord’s feet shall stand upon the Mount of Olives.  The Mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, there shall be a very great valley; “and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.” Zech. 14:4.  The Lord’s post-millennial coming, too, shall be similar to this.  See Early Writings, pp. 51, 52.

   The servants of God shall then flee to the valley of the mountains, where the Lord’s feet shall stand, and all the saints with them; that is, the Lord’s “feet” will open the way for the restoration of the Kingdom, and for the gathering of the people into it.” ( 2 TG, no. 31, p.6-7)

For the third time it is repeated again! This shows the Lord does not want us to miss this point.

We must keep in mind that the rapid travel to the Kingdom results on the 144,000 meeting up with the “Four Carpenters” who job it is , is to work for the Lord and 144,000 to prepare the Kingdom to received the Great Multitude who come from the preaching of the 144,000 around the world.

Now, we are told to go by “weight of evidence” as shown in the following statements —

“Those who desire to doubt will have plenty of room. God does not propose to remove all occasion for unbelief. He gives candid evidence, which must be carefully investigated with a humble mind and teachable spirit, and all should decide from the weight of evidence.”(Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p.675)

“The weight of evidence” is the only fair and final criterion worthy of a Christian who must ever make an investigation for himself concerning purported truth.” ( 1 Ans, p.77) 

“In considering the several scriptures bearing on this point and on the kindred points in question, we must base our conclusions solely on the weight of evidence, so that we may not only know all the truth, but also teach nothing but the truth” (Tract 9, p.6)

“Some who are anxious to risk Present Truth on the weight of what one inspired statement seems to say or imply, are thereby presumptuously or very ignorantly overlooking the “weight of evidence.” Others are doing this through shortsightedness, while still others are doing it to prop up certain cherished ideas of their own.” (3 Ans, p. 41-42)

Says the Spirit of Prophecy, “Close reasoners and logical thinkers are few. ” “How many men in this age of the world fail to go deep enough. They only skim the surface. They will not think closely enough to see difficulties and grapple with them, and will not examine every important subject which comes before them with thoughtful, prayerful study, and with sufficient caution and interest to see the real point at issue. They talk of matters which they have not fully and carefully weighed. ”—“Fundamentals of Christian Education,” p. 27; “Testimonies for the Church,” Vol. 4, p. 361. (3 SC, no.5-6, p.7)


So can we find any other statements that show a different time when they leave for the kingdom? No we do not. 

There is one possible statement, that some use to interpret as to say the saints stay in their homeland after Ezek. 9. It is based on the following —  The Rod comments on this statement —

“Thus says the LORD: “The people who survived the sword Found grace in the wilderness— Israel, when I went to give him rest.” (Jer. 31:2)

The Rod comments on this statement ––“Thus saith the Lord, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.”

The people who survive their captivity, are to find grace in the lands of the Gentiles — in “the wilderness,” away from the vineyard. (Since the Promised Land is the vineyard — Isaiah 5 — then what would the wilderness be but the lands of the Gentiles?) God’s people will find this grace at the time the Lord causes them to rest from their “sojourning” — after the “Judgment in the house of God” (1 Pet. 4:17) takes place.” (1 TG, no.48, p.20)

We are told that rest will be found after Ezek. 9. Thus, we only look at the type Jacob as to where and when he found that grace and rest. He found it not in his adopted homeland, where he lived while in exile, but
while he was on his journey homeward. So yes, they saints will find grace and rest after Ezek. 9, but not as the stay in their adopted homeland but on their travel to the kingdom. And we have learned that journey start quickly after Ezek. 9


Now, once we see this clearly, we get the solid facts —

1) Because the saints flee quickly to the Holy land after Ezek. 9, they then will experience grace and rest sometime during their travel to the Kingdom.

2) As this happens quickly after Ezek. 9, they cannot logically go through the Sunday law on their way home unless we want to say the SL is set up PRIOR or DURING the war (and Ezek.9) which would be preposterous and 
illogical

3) As not only the saints find grace and rest,  they experience Jacob’s time of trouble on their way home (confirmed by our Fundamental Beliefs). They then meet up with the Four Carpenters (as spoken of in Zech. 1:19-21)

4) So logically the JTT must be something else they experience apart from the SL.

Take a look at our Harvest Chart —

Notice what happens after Ezek. 9. We see the church federation. Then AFTER , not before, is the arrival of the false prophet and the establishment of the SL in the two -horned  beast domain (USA)

So to conclude when we add it all up and weighing the evidence the SL cannot be JTT, nor can it be established right away after  the Zech. 14 war and Ezek. 9

Tags: bible, christianity, faith, god, jesus

As we see the subject of Matt:20 parable being discussed among present truth believers, the Lord in His wonderful way “supped” (Rev. 3:20) once more with us. Things were made much more clearer as to whether we are in the 11th hour or whether we are pre-11th hour.

As we have mentioned many times before in our correspondance with brethren on this subject, this is one of those subjects we must “go deep” and weigh it, as there are conflicting statements. This is similar to the “Those with” subject. You will find several references that seem to say one view and others saying another view, seemingly contradictory.

If the Lord said through SOP and the Rod the following counsels, then it must be  we CAN find the weight of the subject. This is important, as some are propping up their ideas without explaining the opposite  view and harmonizing it. We found that continually in our correspondance with brethren on the “Those with” subject in the past.

“Those who desire to doubt will have plenty of room. God does not propose to remove all occasion for unbelief. He gives candid evidence, which must be carefully investigated with a humble mind and teachable spirit, and all should decide from the weight of evidence.”(Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p.675)

“The weight of evidence” is the only fair and final criterion worthy of a Christian who must ever make an investigation for himself concerning purported truth.” ( 1 Ans, p.77) 

“In considering the several scriptures bearing on this point and on the kindred points in question, we must base our conclusions solely on the weight of evidence, so that we may not only know all the truth, but also teach nothing but the truth” (Tract 9, p.6)

“Some who are anxious to risk Present Truth on the weight of what one inspired statement seems to say or imply, are thereby presumptuously or very ignorantly overlooking the “weight of evidence.” Others are doing this through shortsightedness, while still others are doing it to prop up certain cherished ideas of their own.” (3 Ans, p. 41-42)

Now let us begin by addressing an issue that has come up in the discussion. That is, this subject is a “salvational” issue. Meaning we had better be on the correct side of the question of whether we are in the 11th hour or not. This issue we feel is a “How readest thou?” (Luke 10:26) meaning that due to the confusing and conflicting statements we cannot believe the Lord would hold those accountable for siding with one view (although incorrect) because of the many statements that seem to back up that view. The lesson on Tract 10 “Sign of Jonah” guides us and explains —

"Suffice it to say that our experience in gospel publishing work teaches us that many who have spent almost  countless hours of precious time in confusing the subject of the sign of Jonah, have spent but very little time in studying more essential subjects such as the prohibition against private interpretations of the Scriptures (2 Pet. 1:19, 20); the Spirit of Prophecy (Rev. 19:10); the Sabbath (Ex. 20:8-11); baptism (Matt. 3:15; Acts 2:38); the Kingdom (Isa. 2:2), the slaughter of Ezekiel 9, tithe paying (Mal. 3:10); although these vital subjects call for performance, -- a duty to practice the truths which they teach, -- whereas the sign of Jonah demands nothing." (Tract 10, p.20)

What does saying we are in or pre- 11th hour gain us? What does that change our message now to the church? Nothing. God’s workers in the church vineyard now are still to proclaim the message of the “judgment for the living” for the SDA church is soon to begin (1 Peter 4:17) along with reformation and the understanding of the 144,000 (SR, vol.1, introduction).

Now contrast that to the subject of the 144,000 sealing in the SDA church. The Rod clearly points the understanding of this subject as salvational. 

“If we do not understand the subject of the 144,000, we may not be sealed, for it would be worthless to understand it after the sealing, just as it would be of no value to understand the beast and his image after his work on earth is finished.” (SRod,  Vol. 1 p.14)

“Some day this subject must be understood, for Inspiration makes no useless statements, and it cannot be in the Bible for a trinket.  It must be understood before the number (144,000) is made or it would be of no value.  When understood, it will guide the feet of the 144,000 in the straight path just as the first, second, and third angel’s messages have led thousands of souls to Christ.”(SRod, vol. 1, p.14)

“The primary purpose of The Shepherd’s Rod is to unlock the long-concealed mystery concerning the ever-challenging and much discussed subject of the 144,000 (Rev. 14:1), with the central object in view of bringing about among God’s people that “thorough reformation” foretold by the Spirit of Prophecy (Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 251)….

 …Its dominant doctrinal concern being the truth of the 144,000, and a correct understanding of it being a life-and-death matter to all, the Rod unfolds it from several different angles, each urging the Denomination to prepare for the glorious deliverance of the saints and against the inglorious destruction of the sinners as foretokened by the marking and slaying recorded in Ezekiel 9.” (SRod Tract, p.5-6)

There are quite a few brethren , we find, who error in the 144,000  subject, particularily on the total  amount of those sealed in Ezek.9 from the church. In other words the amount said to be sealed from “all the tribes of children of Israel”(Rev. 7:4)  is incorrect in their view. Serious indeed!

But after a deep study of this Matt.20 lesson, as to what hour we are in, this can be subjective and our brothers who mount the judgment seat and say “You must get this right or you will be lost” we caution this proclamation. Nevertheless, as we study this issue, we feel it has one view as being correct.

In our next report , part 2, we’ll begin our detailed study of Matt.20, as the Rod has told us —

“(If you wish to study the parable in all its details, you may do so by reading The Shepherd’s Rod, Vol. 2, pp. 222-239.)” (2 TG, no.43,p.11  – published in 1949 and reprinted in 1953)

In that section, we discover strong evidence of how we can determine whether we are now in the 11th hour, or whether we are pre-11th hour. By God’s grace, we will see that the weight of the correct postition can be found.

To conclude, it is very unfortunate some have discussed this issue as a way of degrading our Pre-11th Hour Ministry work, but the Lord is good and those willing and able to “rightly divide the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15) will not be shaken by such short-sightedness.

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